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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 14:07 (51 days ago)

After over 3 stormy days the rain's finally stopped and the sun is out today! :woohoo:

Night after night the sea turtles come to nest on the beaches in Zihuatanejo, and like clockwork poachers sack their nests in the early morning to illegally sell their eggs. We used to have police that kept an eye on the downtown beach, but now the 32 or so remaining police simply collect their paychecks without doing their jobs. The Marinos also used to patrol the beaches but they stopped doing so years ago. So now there is no one but poachers watching for nesting turtles. If you are up early and see where a turtle has nested, PLEASE cover their tracks to help hide the nest. Just kicking some sand around is usually good enough.
[image]

And unfortunately we won't be receiving any cruise ships again this year because the so-called authorities still haven't gotten their act together to get a budget approved for rebuilding our poor old pier.
[image]

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Zih All On Its Own

by kathyMN @, Blaine, Minnesota, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 14:16 (51 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I have seen so many tracks each morning over the past two weeks. The Guardians are having a hard time keeping up with all of them. We have several nests out front that have not been touched yet. I even saw three turtles laying their eggs along the stretch from Monarca to Marina Del Sol on Playa Palmar on Tuesday night. It was so exciting to see them up close. They must have mistaken the heavy cloud cover for the darkness of night.

Zih All On Its Own

by Canada1 @, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 17:43 (51 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


And unfortunately we won't be receiving any cruise ships again this year

Hey Rob, when was the last time cruise ships regularly visited with any Frequency? I have read that Holland America has stopped visits to acapulco for this year and 2018 due to the violence there. Acapulco was scheduled to get 28 cruise ships this year.....and zihua gets zilch what's up,the reasons can't all be tied to the dock! There has got to be a way to get them to the beach/dock without having the ship dock at the pier.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 18:35 (51 days ago) @ Canada1

Searching the Cruise Calendars I don't see any stops in Zihua until September of 2019.

Keith

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 18:47 (51 days ago) @ Canada1


And unfortunately we won't be receiving any cruise ships again this year


Hey Rob, when was the last time cruise ships regularly visited with any Frequency? I have read that Holland America has stopped visits to acapulco for this year and 2018 due to the violence there. Acapulco was scheduled to get 28 cruise ships this year.....and zihua gets zilch what's up,the reasons can't all be tied to the dock! There has got to be a way to get them to the beach/dock without having the ship dock at the pier.

Beginning over a decade ago the industry began shifting resources to where demand was increasing, and a limited number of ships meant we lost out as more ships went back to the Med and the emerging market of the Asian Pacific. Sensationalism regarding violence and phony scares such as avian flu and zika pretty much killed demand for us here in Mexico's southern Pacific Coast.

Thanks to 9/11 and US regs imposed since then, cruise ships require pier to have security measures that were never necessary before. Our pier barely met those requirements until it was declared unsafe by our Port Captain earlier this year, canceling the one cruise ship that had been scheduled, a designation that remains despite the city and the state governments insisting it remain open. Puerto Mío and Marina Ixtapa are the only other landing options for tenders, but apparently other security concerns bar them from being used at the moment.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 19:28 (51 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I believe that the only Cruise ship registered in the U.S. is Pride of America?

So I don't think that you can put the lack of Ships to Zihua on U.S. regulations.

Searching Expidia for bookings there are plenty of Cruises to Mexico's Pacific Coast, it just looks like none of them go South of P.V.

Keith

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 21:09 (51 days ago) @ Labrat

I believe that the only Cruise ship registered in the U.S. is Pride of America?

So I don't think that you can put the lack of Ships to Zihua on U.S. regulations.

Searching Expidia for bookings there are plenty of Cruises to Mexico's Pacific Coast, it just looks like none of them go South of P.V.

Keith

Yes, Keith. U.S. imposed regs after 9/11 affected sea, land and air transportation around the world where U.S. points of origin and destination are involved. Doesn't matter where the ships are registered.

Yes, first the Great Recession then the scare tactics pretty much put an end to cruises longer than 3-4 days in Mexico's Pacific waters. Many of the ships that have visited us in recent years were transition or world cruises. Just when our part of the Pacific Coast was starting to receive cruise ships again first our pier was declared unsafe then the travel alert was emitted. Expect cancellations in cruises to Acapulco, Huatulco and Puerto Chiapas.

When the USA sneezes, Mexico has to deal with pneumonia.

Zih All On Its Own

by Mork, Thursday, August 31, 2017, 22:21 (51 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Long before 9/11, (1920) the U.S. passed the Jones act to protect American mariners sailing from one U.S. port to another. This has led to almost all foreign flagged ships who sail on the West coast stopping in Mexico or Canada, if perhaps only briefly.

I don't quite understand in who would be using scare tactics to stop ships from coming to ZIH?

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Turtles

by juanrojo @, Friday, September 01, 2017, 00:22 (51 days ago) @ Mork

It's so very sad to hear of locals robbing nests in this day and age.

I realize that it is very much an uphill battle in changing the people's attitudes but swimming in nature with turtles is one of Akumal Mexico's main tourist attractions and they draw around 3000 people a day or a hundred thousand day trippers a year to a village of 1000 people to view 30 or 40 resident turtles. So many people that the fragile eco system is very much at risk but there could be some kind of balance in a big bay like Zihua.

A hundred thousand day trippers for maybe 40 turtles makes each turtle worth quite a bit.

The people have to be educated about what is in their own collective interest but that takes time.

If education won't work then fight dirty and get real and remind the gangs that a lot of that turtle tour business is a cash cow and they already know how to milk a cash cow and how to deal with some punks stealing THEIR turtle eggs for chump change.

--
Please be happy always

Turtles

by Charlybby, Friday, September 01, 2017, 01:57 (50 days ago) @ juanrojo

Soooo well put & so true!!

Turtles

by Mexalberta @, Friday, September 01, 2017, 09:14 (50 days ago) @ juanrojo

Last year Akumal Bay was closed for 51 days in an attempt to alleviate the invasion. There are new guidelines in place to gain more control over the tourists in the bay. May be too late!

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Turtle rules - No Profepa enforcement

by juanrojo @, Friday, September 01, 2017, 11:03 (50 days ago) @ Mexalberta

I wasn't suggesting that Akumal Bay's overuse was a good thing in any way but using it as an example of the almost inexhaustible demand and potential value of eco tourism to other places like Zihuatanejo.

In reality there was no closure or any real reduction of use in Akumal Bay last year. There have been many attempts in different ways to limit use but there was almost NO ENFORCEMENT by Profepa and so no ACTUAL reduction in use. This is really because there is a HUGE demand for this type of experience from European and other international tourists. Profepa did issue some fines to blatant tour company abusers but there are hundreds of other providers to take their place and a fairly new resort shoehorned right onto that critical beach for turtle nesting.

In Zihuatanejo across from Lety's restaurant there are 20 to 30 concrete perforated fish attracting structures that have been sitting there for years. They could finally be installed in Zihua Bay and create cover for thousands of fish and yes for turtles too. There are similar perforated concrete bells like the one by the reef wall at Las Gatas that already work wonderfully as cover elsewhere in the bay and simply completing the installation of the already made structures would be a great start.

There are a variety of boat mooring permanent anchors that attract fish right off La Ropa beach and I have seen turtles right off the Rossy Restaurant exploring the anchors for food.


I realize some of the difficulties with money and vision in Zihuatanejo government but you have to start someplace.

--
Please be happy always

Turtle rules - No Profepa enforcement

by Mexalberta @, Friday, September 01, 2017, 15:13 (50 days ago) @ juanrojo

My mistake, the bay was closed to tour operators for 51 days.

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Humans

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 10:51 (50 days ago) @ juanrojo

We're dealing with mostly alcoholics who see the turtle eggs as just a few more bottles of cheap tequila. There is no reasoning with them. The world is an overpopulated place. Our presence is literally killing the planet. The worst of humanity continues getting worse, the "best" is at best benign, but that's apparently still a conversation no one wants to have because, well OF COURSE we humans have every "right" to reproduce to our heart's content. Survival of the fittest and image of god and all that, right?

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Followup (or slime seeks its own level)

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, September 02, 2017, 10:11 (49 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Well, it turns out the poachers had a little ruckus on the beach around 6AM this morning when they got into a knife fight among themselves over who was going to poach which turtle nest. Apparently a newcomer showed up and wanted in on the fun so he could buy some more tequila, too. At least one of them was taken away in an ambulance with his face all slashed up.

My wife Lupita spoke to both the policía and the Marinos about the turtle poaching problem the other day, so this incident underscores that message and the messages I've been sending to the local government with my photos. A squeaky wheel may get greased, but throw some blood on it and it'll get even more attention. ;-) :devil:

Regarding our missing police force, one of the local police who responded said they are trying to recruit new qualified officers with care not to repeat previous mistakes. Let's all wish them speed and success in this endeavor.

Followup (or slime seeks its own level)

by Charlybby, Saturday, September 02, 2017, 17:46 (49 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Boy, do we ever need that!!

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 10:59 (50 days ago) @ Mork

Long before 9/11, (1920) the U.S. passed the Jones act to protect American mariners sailing from one U.S. port to another. This has led to almost all foreign flagged ships who sail on the West coast stopping in Mexico or Canada, if perhaps only briefly.

I don't quite understand in who would be using scare tactics to stop ships from coming to ZIH?

I must be missing your point.

You don't remember the H1N1 scare? The zika scare, which really has nothing to do with us? You missed the numerous State Dep't alerts? And the latest: the tainted booze and drugged drink scare?

Zih All On Its Own

by Mork, Friday, September 01, 2017, 16:14 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Rob, I did not mention that I don't remember the real and imagined scares! I said "I don't quite understand who would be using scare tactics to stop ships from coming to ZIH?" Now I will add the word 'why' to my question.
M

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 18:20 (50 days ago) @ Mork

Rob, I did not mention that I don't remember the real and imagined scares! I said "I don't quite understand who would be using scare tactics to stop ships from coming to ZIH?" Now I will add the word 'why' to my question.
M

Who? Different interests for different reasons, but all enjoying the resources of Uncle Sam. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and especially the hospitality industry would be good starting points. Why? To keep U.S. dollars in U.S. businesses and out of the businesses of "bad hombres." Especially as a leverage tactic during trade negotiations.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Friday, September 01, 2017, 10:55 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

I was addressing your Pier Requirement comment.

U.S. requirements for dockage would only pertain to U.S. registered shipping.

Keith

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Más Chile Más Mejor

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 11:06 (50 days ago) @ Labrat

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

I was addressing your Pier Requirement comment.

U.S. requirements for dockage would only pertain to U.S. registered shipping.

Keith

So was I. Are you saying we simply IMAGINED the U.S. safety requirements imposed on all cruise ship destinations with U.S. ports of call after 9/11? If a cruise originates in San Diego or Miami and we want to receive their passengers we have to adopt the safety measures imposed on the industry by the U.S. government. If the cruise originates elsewhere and has no U.S. stops the regs are different. Same for aviation. The Bush legacy is the gift that just keeps on giving.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Friday, September 01, 2017, 11:55 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Transportation Dot Gov

Vessel Safety

The U.S. Coast Guard is responsible for cruise ship safety. Although each cruise ship is subject to the vessel inspection laws of the country in which it is registered, as a condition of permitting the vessels to take on passengers at U.S. ports, the Coast Guard requires the ships to meet the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea and other international regulations. Among other things, these regulations concern structural fire protection, firefighting and lifesaving equipment, watercraft integrity and stability, vessel control, navigation safety, crewing and crew competency, safety management and environmental protection. The Coast Guard conducts routine onboard inspections of cruise ships to ensure compliance with applicable laws and regulations.


I don't see any of what you are speaking of in there.


Keith

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 12:33 (50 days ago) @ Labrat

Transportation Dot Gov

Vessel Safety

The U.S. Coast Guard is responsible for cruise ship safety. Although each cruise ship is subject to the vessel inspection laws of the country in which it is registered, as a condition of permitting the vessels to take on passengers at U.S. ports, the Coast Guard requires the ships to meet the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea and other international regulations. Among other things, these regulations concern structural fire protection, firefighting and lifesaving equipment, watercraft integrity and stability, vessel control, navigation safety, crewing and crew competency, safety management and environmental protection. The Coast Guard conducts routine onboard inspections of cruise ships to ensure compliance with applicable laws and regulations.


I don't see any of what you are speaking of in there.


Keith

No, you don't. You must not be looking in the right place, ace.

Of course, I and all of Mexico just make this stuff up because we're so "anti-American", even though we're all Americans here, too.

I suggest you just take my word for it instead of seeking your GOTCHA moment. Unlike you, I live this reality. I, along with the rest of the world outside US borders, watched it unfold in real time and in living color.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Friday, September 01, 2017, 14:35 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I'm looking for the actual information.

If I posted inaccurate regulations The Board et al would be all up my hindend about it.

I don't feel requesting little reciprocity is out of line.

If you have a link to U.S. Regulations of dockage that pertain to U.S. passengers on Cruise Ships, then please share it.

My uneducated opinion is that ships are not stopping in Zihua, because they are not going South to Acapulco.

Keith

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Más Chile Más Mejor

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Zih All On Its Own

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 01, 2017, 15:29 (50 days ago) @ Labrat

I'm looking for the actual information.

If I posted inaccurate regulations The Board et al would be all up my hindend about it.

I don't feel requesting little reciprocity is out of line.

If you have a link to U.S. Regulations of dockage that pertain to U.S. passengers on Cruise Ships, then please share it.

My uneducated opinion is that ships are not stopping in Zihua, because they are not going South to Acapulco.

Keith

Since our pier was declared unsafe by the Capitañía del Puerto earlier this year, the cruise ships have no place to disembark in Zihuatanejo that meets the U.S. imposed safety regs. Puerto Mío was proposed a few years ago when the pier closed, but other problems and issues arose. Acapulco IS receiving cruise ships this year. We were supposed to receive some, but we can't now. This is not about "dockage" because they don't dock here. They disembark and embark passengers whose eventual destination is the USA. Just like with the airlines. I can fly to Cuba or most any other country and not have to remove my shoes and be treated like a criminal.

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Friday, September 01, 2017, 15:37 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

This is what I am talking about.

"the cruise ships have no place to disembark in Zihuatanejo that meets the U.S. imposed safety regs."

I can't seem to find any though the DOT or Google.

Keith

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Más Chile Más Mejor

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Zih All On Its Own

by Mork, Friday, September 01, 2017, 16:48 (50 days ago) @ Labrat

I'm with you. No cruise ship company in their right mind would disembark passengers in ZIH under the current conditions. Trying to shuttle 1000-2000 passengers from anchorage and back to the ship is always tricky business. The increase in their liability insurance alone would prevent it. On another note, cruise lines would only rarely stop at either Acapulco or Zihua as there is no market for cities this far south in Mexico. For the most part, the market is limited to ships heading to or from the Panama canal. These are almost exclusively repositioning cruises from the Caribbean to Alaska. If the pier is unsafe now, repair and rebuild with Los Gatos, fishing pangas and other ZIH residents in mind.

Zih All On Its Own

by Chloe, Friday, September 01, 2017, 22:38 (50 days ago) @ Labrat

Here is one area to peruse regarding regulations.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/70110

This section of code was updated after 9/11. A number of sites still post the Coast Guard regulations of 2010.

This thread piqued my interest as I used to work in an industry where I had to explain that HIPAA pretty much became a farce after 9/11 due to Homeland Security R&R. But, that's another topic for a much later time )

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Zih All On Its Own

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Saturday, September 02, 2017, 09:45 (49 days ago) @ Chloe

Thanks for the link!!

Keith

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Zih All On Its Own

by Charlybby, Monday, September 04, 2017, 03:23 (47 days ago) @ Chloe

I recognize that humor/sarcasm! :-] :jeer:

Zih All On Its Own

by Charlybby, Friday, September 01, 2017, 01:50 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Omg!! So sad about the turtles first, but also the other neglects!:(

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Zih All On Its Own

by BTfromMN @, Northeastern Minnesota, Friday, September 01, 2017, 22:24 (50 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Well, I dont usually post but here goes.Just like the Inca , Maya, Roman ,etc.empires all had their achilles tendon,so do we overindulgence in every aspect.I do not know when but the mother earth has a way of cleansing itself we will be the past civilization sometime.
We cannot stop are future but we can try to live and enjoy our life as best we can with respect to nature and fellow humans.
Sorry but the craft beers are about 9per cent these days so maybe just a little on the dramatic side.
Siempre regresamos a visitar nuestro amigos en Zihuatanejo.La mayoria de la gente que conocimos son igual a nosotros.Queremos realizar nuestros metas y crear nuestro ninos a tener una vida allegre.

Turtles

by Chicago Joe ⌂ @, Sunday, September 03, 2017, 09:39 (48 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Nobody is disturbing nor stealing eggs on Playa Palmar that I could see.

A sea turtle came way up onto the sand , towards condo buildings, then retreated to the sea.

Everyone took pictures but did nothing else .