Amlo's thoughts, what are your's

by h4Dan, California, Monday, March 23, 2020, 19:29 (141 days ago)

I fail to understand this, seems like he's going the opposite direction of every one else.

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/03/amlo-asks-not-to-stop-going-out-or-to-take-exaggerated-measures/

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, March 23, 2020, 19:37 (141 days ago) @ h4Dan

I fail to understand this, seems like he's going the opposite direction of every one else.

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/03/amlo-asks-not-to-stop-going-out-or-to-take-exaggerated-measures/

A shame to see folks misinterpret yellow journalism instead of simply looking at the facts. Due to Mexico correctly implementing protocols it had in place since China first admitted it had an epidemic, Mexico has bought itself precious time to prepare itself better. Mexico remains in Phase 1 precisely because it took successful measures from the start. But it is already taking the precautions as if it were in Phase 2.

Because so many Mexicans live on a day-to-day basis, removing their sustenance will kill them quicker than the virus. So Mexico has to walk the fine line of maintaining parts of its economy active while taking adequate protective measures that keep the population healthy. Thus the campaigns to maintain safe distances and to wash hands frequently. So far so good. Presidente López Obrador and especially the Secretaría de Salud are to be commended for their actions, not criticized or ridiculed.

Since January 3rd Mexico has apparently been doing all the correct things. It has slowed the pandemia, bought Mexico time, allowed it to plan and prepare, and hopefully will flatten the curve so that our medical services aren't overwhelmed as more cases of COVID-19 arise.

AMLO y El Chisme

by Mexalberta @, Monday, March 23, 2020, 20:41 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Having 70000 people at a concert
Allowing flights from Spain, Italy and China is not preparation.
Those are facts

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, March 23, 2020, 21:59 (141 days ago) @ Mexalberta

Having 70000 people at a concert
Allowing flights from Spain, Italy and China is not preparation.
Those are facts

He had a concert, or a concert occurred. When was that? Oh, while there were few cases, all from travelers abroad, all contained.

Yes, flights arrive, people are screened, people are treated like people. We also received a cruise ship no one else wanted. Imagine that. Being humane and decent instead of acting like hysterical nazis.

What is the purpose? To slow the virus. The virus remains contained. ¡Viva México!

I’m beginning to think Anglos share some hysteria gene.

AMLO y El Chisme

by Tucker62 @, Vancouver, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 09:25 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Hi Rob,
I'm a bit confused here and I'm sure I'm not the only one - hope you can help us out. I totally get your point about the Mexicans living day-to-day and the difficulty of implementing social distancing. On the other hand, you yourself have stated in another thread that you hoped Zihua would shut down all restaurants soon. We flew here early January from Vancouver through Mexico City and I popped back to Vancouver for a week in February - at no point were we screened. So I guess my two questions are: 1. Exactly what measures is Mexico implementing that are containing the virus? 2. Should we be following the strict social distancing advised in Canada or should we be following AMLO's instructions and pumping our money into the local economy through restaurants, bars, and shops?
Not trying to be awkward here, just looking for a clear picture. Thanks!
Dave

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme - precautions

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:29 (141 days ago) @ Tucker62

Hi Rob,
I'm a bit confused here and I'm sure I'm not the only one - hope you can help us out. I totally get your point about the Mexicans living day-to-day and the difficulty of implementing social distancing. On the other hand, you yourself have stated in another thread that you hoped Zihua would shut down all restaurants soon. We flew here early January from Vancouver through Mexico City and I popped back to Vancouver for a week in February - at no point were we screened. So I guess my two questions are: 1. Exactly what measures is Mexico implementing that are containing the virus? 2. Should we be following the strict social distancing advised in Canada or should we be following AMLO's instructions and pumping our money into the local economy through restaurants, bars, and shops?
Not trying to be awkward here, just looking for a clear picture. Thanks!
Dave

I don't recall suggesting restaurants close because we need their services, especially the ones that deliver, only bars and eventually hotels, but we're not there yet.

The following restaurants are offering their delivery services so that people can follow the Mexican government's recommendations of maintaining social distancing:

Nueva Zelanda Ixtapa 5530838
Fonda Paloma 5447782
Angustina 755548566
Loot 7555446038
Palo Zanka Ixtapa 5530009
Palo Zanka Zihua 1121842
Rubens Zihua 5540025
Rubens Ixtapa 5530358- 5530027
Kadi Sushi 7555446810
Yume no tochu 5530676
El pirata mariscos 7551150895
Santa Prisca Pozolería 7555571174
Teosintle desayunos 7555543712
Las carnitas by santa prisca 7551202236
Mi tacita de café 7555541112
Café del Ferrocarril 755 553 0764
Cuattro Café 5541641
Garrobos 5546706- 7551116679
La Raíz de la Tierra 5531503
Tasca Bar & Tapas 7551366022
Restaurante D'María 55 464 44
Vegano EntreZankas 755113 7580

Some of these places I don't normally recommend and I'm not exactly recommending them here, but these aren't normal times and I want to put this info out there for you who are here.

Community contagion has only barely started in Mexico, and so far Mexico has maintained a flattened curve in the spread of this virus by taking proactive actions since January 3rd.

My comments regarding "hysteria" by some foreigners have been to draw the contrast between what is happening elsewhere and what is happening here. Mexico draws on its socio-cultural strengths in its approach to this crisis as it has to others in the past. As I predicted, as soon as it became known where my photo of toilet paper was taken yesterday, mostly foreigners made a run on the store. Thus my half tongue-in-cheek and irreverent comments about "Anglos" and "hysteria gene" that some folks took out of context.

One development that has angered me is the decision by the government for the state of Guerrero NOT to reveal the location of new cases of COVID-19 in our state. They claim it is to protect the privacy of the victims. I claim BULL, that it is instead to protect economic interests of influential people. I find this development extremely irresponsible and totally unacceptable, and I have let them know my feelings on the matter.

Mexico's federal government is respecting individual rights while recommending people follow the directions of the Secretaría de Salud who is doing an exemplary job taking the necessary steps, precautions and preparations for the coming weeks and months. At a more appropriate time I expect we will be advised to take more extreme measures and precautions. They outlined a new plan today as well as formally declaring Mexico is now in the mitigation phase. While the details are prohibitively long for me to repeat here, I found the plans reassuring in their scope and thoroughness. In Mexico the competent experts are in charge of this, not the politicians. A stark contrast from what our Stateside visitors have somehow become accustomed to.

Folks can still come here, enjoy our beaches, enjoy our restaurants, enjoy our natural beauty. But I do at some point expect hotels may be told to close along with the airport and bus terminals so as not to attract thousands of people from the inland cities where there will be widespread contagion. As I have always said, people who don't speak Spanish will find themselves at a disadvantage regarding being able to keep themselves informed, but I hope they will nevertheless make the effort.

COVID-19 - Secretaría de Salud

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme - forgot to add

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:35 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

You will be screened upon arrival if arriving by international flight to our airport. I don't know if national flights and bus arrivals will also now be screened as we enter the mitigation phase. I'm trying to find out further details.

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme - precautions

by Saskbrian @, Ixtapa, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:40 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme - precautions

by Bonnie @, wherever you go, there you are..., Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 11:22 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Community contagion has only barely started in Mexico, and so far Mexico has maintained a flattened curve in the spread of this virus by taking proactive actions since January 3rd.

so it looks like Mexico will be making global news, as India did today, and joining the worldwide consensus on lockdown. Almost everything you mention in your post exhibits the protocol most of the world is adhering to. The only deviation is your statement regarding the "flattened curve" Mexico has maintained. That's fake news. If you care to google the Johns Hopkins Covid19 site, you will find Mexico's curve is maintaining it's meteoric rise and imitates Italy, Spain, the US and so on. If you want to see "flattened" then check out China, S.Korea and Denmark to name a few. Mexico's proactive approach appears to have failed and I am truly sorry for your loss. We have a long way to go before we're ALL out of this...and that's a big IF for many of us. Take care and be well.

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme - precautions

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 11:47 (140 days ago) @ Bonnie

Community contagion has only barely started in Mexico, and so far Mexico has maintained a flattened curve in the spread of this virus by taking proactive actions since January 3rd.


so it looks like Mexico will be making global news, as India did today, and joining the worldwide consensus on lockdown. Almost everything you mention in your post exhibits the protocol most of the world is adhering to. The only deviation is your statement regarding the "flattened curve" Mexico has maintained. That's fake news. If you care to google the Johns Hopkins Covid19 site, you will find Mexico's curve is maintaining it's meteoric rise and imitates Italy, Spain, the US and so on. If you want to see "flattened" then check out China, S.Korea and Denmark to name a few. Mexico's proactive approach appears to have failed and I am truly sorry for your loss. We have a long way to go before we're ALL out of this...and that's a big IF for many of us. Take care and be well.

I'm tired of arguing with foreigners. I'll trust our Mexican sources over, yes, even JOHN FRIGGIN HOPKINS. I've already put the link to reliable information enough times that if you haven't bothered to look at the info there, the problem is with your info, not mine.

No, we're not on lockdown and we don't intend to be anytime soon. That info is nowhere to be found except perhaps on CNN Freaking News or Faux Snooze or one of those odd substitutes for news folks up there seem to prefer.

Have a marvelous day! Saludos.

AMLO y sus amuletos de protección

by SeaTraveler, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 12:35 (140 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Avatar

AMLO y sus bromas

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 13:01 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

https://www.nytimes.com/es/2020/03/24/espanol/opinion/coronavirus-mexico-lopez-obrador.html

The "amuletos de protección" was a joke. Apparently a lot of people didn't get it.

The Presidente enjoys good health and gave an excellent morning press conference with his aides outlining the measures that will be implemented as the nation enters the Fase Dos and process of mitigation.

Op Ed

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 13:23 (140 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I didn't read the article yet, but looks like it is an opinion piece. Lots and lots of op eds out there right now, as there are here on the board. Op eds are just that 'tho, just one person's opinion, not necessarily facts.

AMLO y El Chisme

by h4Dan, California, Monday, March 23, 2020, 20:43 (141 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

It's heartening to hear that Mexico is in fairly good shape. I hope it comes out of this well. :-)

Avatar

AMLO y El Chisme

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:43 (141 days ago) @ h4Dan

It's heartening to hear that Mexico is in fairly good shape. I hope it comes out of this well. :-)

While I have no illusions about the lack of adequate medical care and facilities locally or in other parts of Mexico, the overall horizon for the country looks much better than what folks to the north of us have suffered from the "Democratic hoax" reported by all the "Fake News" by the "very stable genius" who rated his personal response to the pandemia a "10".

A compilation of The Chump's bald-faces self-serving lies about the COVID-19 pandemia in 2 minutes.

My thoughts, what are your's

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 14:31 (140 days ago) @ h4Dan

Staying home, while stopping the spread, gives one plenty of time for philosophizing. It seems that where ever we are, we are going to feel and witness the effects of this virus. Over a million Canadians have flocked home. Others are trying to get to their homes. I see what's happening in Asia, Europe, here and US. In a crisis, we all want to be home with the people we love, we don't head for where ever the government makes the most sense.
It would be rather mean spirited of me to try to lay blame at various govts & countries doors from the relative safety of my living room. And it does't matter right now who did or said what. The only thing that matters is what is happening on the ground where you are.
We are all, every single human survivor of this, we are all going to be affected by this in many different ways. Now might be a time for some positive support and practical suggestions. Approaching things in a practical manner and with what grandma called gumption, will help you keep your sanity in a very trying time.
We need to learn to re use and make do again! The more creatively the better!
Maybe Rob will let us do a book club here. Or at least good read suggestions for the time you have staying at home.

My thoughts, what are your's

by Mexalberta @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 14:53 (140 days ago) @ islandgirl

Staying home, while stopping the spread, gives one plenty of time for philosophizing. It seems that where ever we are, we are going to feel and witness the effects of this virus. Over a million Canadians have flocked home. Others are trying to get to their homes. I see what's happening in Asia, Europe, here and US. In a crisis, we all want to be home with the people we love, we don't head for where ever the government makes the most sense.
It would be rather mean spirited of me to try to lay blame at various govts & countries doors from the relative safety of my living room. And it does't matter right now who did or said what. The only thing that matters is what is happening on the ground where you are.
We are all, every single human survivor of this, we are all going to be affected by this in many different ways. Now might be a time for some positive support and practical suggestions. Approaching things in a practical manner and with what grandma called gumption, will help you keep your sanity in a very trying time.
We need to learn to re use and make do again! The more creatively the better!
Maybe Rob will let us do a book club here. Or at least good read suggestions for the time you have staying at home.

Any knowledge and experience we gain from this situation will help us in the future. In Canada the knowledge we gained from Sars is helping our country.

My thoughts, what are your's

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 14:58 (140 days ago) @ Mexalberta

I dunno about that. On Sunday, Quebec had 219 cases. Today, only 2 days later, they have 1013. That's a huge spike. There's only one way: Stay home, stop the spread.

My thoughts, what are your's

by SeaTraveler, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 18:43 (140 days ago) @ islandgirl

You seem to get it. The simple idea that some (worst of all, Rob Whitehead) cannot comprehend: this is a virus epidemic, spread by person-to-person contact. The ONLY way to interrupt the spread is to break that person-to-person contact cycle. By the time Rob and his hero, AMLO, can start to count dead bodies, the battle will have been lost several weeks earlier. Zihuatanejo y el estado de Guerrero may have a chance right now to interrupt the person-to-person spread that is how any epidemic occurs. But only if they take action now = stop the person-to-person contact.

Interesting data out tonight on what is happening in Kentucky (where the governor took decisive action quickly and early several weeks ago) vs. neighboring Tennessee (where the governor is still dawdling): huge differences in deaths at this point. Will only get worse.

Keep advocating for people to stay at home and spare one another! It's the kindest thing everyone can do.

Cheers from Seattle (sorry you can't shop here now; neither can we).

My thoughts, what are your's

by Dougschuler @, Denver, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 19:18 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

What is the difference between the common flu 19,000 deaths a year and Covid-19? We do not shut down a country for the flu. With the flu We get sick, stay home from work a few days and go on with our lives and 19,00 Americans don't make it. Happens every year. We do get a years head start on the vaccine.

My thoughts, what are your's

by tja @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 19:46 (140 days ago) @ Dougschuler

An interesting read?
Supposedly written (unofficially) by a microbiologist with the CDC in Atlanta, a friend of a friend.

“This should help explain why we have to quarantine and not just those
with compromised immune systems.... but everyone until this
contained.... read it until the end.

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal
flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to
share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up
the virus are recognized by the human immune system.

This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes
around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a
virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in
animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations).

Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the
case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu).

But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer
from animals to humans... then it’s a problem.

Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA
sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human
immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to
human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to
a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human
to human...

Once that happens..we have a new contagion phase.

And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides
how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly
as the Spanish flu.

It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for
nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan
China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to
people.

At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the
scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the
ability to jump from human to human.

Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we
would all have some natural or acquired immunity). That propelled off
like a rocket.

And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no
known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus,
changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to
human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any
other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF.

And it’s a lung eater... And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we
now have two strains to deal with, strain S, and strain L....which
makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this.

History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places
has helped in the past pandemics.

Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and
they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him,
till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much
better now).

Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder...

But this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will).
Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that

Another informative article
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Avatar

My thoughts, what are your's

by mosesk @, Ojai, CA, USA, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 20:00 (140 days ago) @ tja

An interesting read?
Supposedly written (unofficially) by a microbiologist with the CDC in Atlanta, a friend of a friend.

“This should help explain why we have to quarantine and not just those
with compromised immune systems.... but everyone until this
contained.... read it until the end.

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal
flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to
share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up
the virus are recognized by the human immune system.

This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes
around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a
virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in
animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations).

Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the
case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu).

But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer
from animals to humans... then it’s a problem.

Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA
sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human
immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to
human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to
a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human
to human...

Once that happens..we have a new contagion phase.

And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides
how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly
as the Spanish flu.

It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for
nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan
China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to
people.

At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the
scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the
ability to jump from human to human.

Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we
would all have some natural or acquired immunity). That propelled off
like a rocket.

And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no
known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus,
changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to
human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any
other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF.

And it’s a lung eater... And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we
now have two strains to deal with, strain S, and strain L....which
makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this.

History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places
has helped in the past pandemics.

Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and
they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him,
till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much
better now).

Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder...

But this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will).
Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that

Another informative article
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

That is GREAT information, assuming it is accurate, and I have no reason to suspect it isn't.
Thank you to you, friend of a friend and the microbiologist.
I'm going to pass it around and hope I don't get slammed.
Even if it's not entirely scientificly true, it sure makes for a compelling theory!

My thoughts, what are your's

by karenanddick, Friday, March 27, 2020, 05:08 (138 days ago) @ tja

Great post tja. Sounds like you got the facts straight.

My thoughts, what are your's

by Fly on the Wall, Friday, March 27, 2020, 07:13 (138 days ago) @ karenanddick

Interesting development in our condo building . Our condo board has removed all furniture from around the pool and under palm trees, cabanas on the beach . They say they are adhering to government restrictions on spacing and they say they will enforce it. Will be interesting to see if they actually can . Anything similar planned for the beaches in Zihua ?

Avatar

My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 20:33 (140 days ago) @ Dougschuler

Influenza has a mortality rate of 0.1%. COVID-19 has a mortality rate of at least 2%. Around twenty time more deaths.
There is a vaccine for the flu, there is no vaccine for COVID-19
There are antibiotics for influenza, there is no treatment for COVID-19

Avatar

My thoughts, what are your's

by Sandy feet, Seattle, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 20:54 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

I was hoping you'd weigh in.
Thanks Tim

My thoughts, what are your's

by tja @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 21:36 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

An interesting read?
Supposedly written (unofficially) by a microbiologist with the CDC in Atlanta, a friend of a friend.

“This should help explain why we have to quarantine and not just those
with compromised immune systems.... but everyone until this
contained.... read it until the end.

Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal
flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to
share this to others who don’t understand...

It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.

Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up
the virus are recognized by the human immune system.

This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes
around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a
virus, or by getting a flu shot.

Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in
animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations).

Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the
case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu).

But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer
from animals to humans... then it’s a problem.

Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA
sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human
immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.

Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to
human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to
a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human
to human...

Once that happens..we have a new contagion phase.

And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides
how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..

H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly
as the Spanish flu.

It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.

Fast forward.

Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for
nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan
China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to
people.

At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the
scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the
ability to jump from human to human.

Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”

This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we
would all have some natural or acquired immunity). That propelled off
like a rocket.

And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no
known medicines for it.

And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus,
changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to
human lungs..

That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any
other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF.

And it’s a lung eater... And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we
now have two strains to deal with, strain S, and strain L....which
makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.

We really have no tools in our shed, with this.

History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places
has helped in the past pandemics.

Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and
they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.

Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him,
till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much
better now).

Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...

And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder...

But this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will).
Who is to say, what it will do next.

Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.

#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that

Another informative article
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

My thoughts, what are your's

by The Fez ⌂ @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 22:02 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

There are antibiotics for influenza, there is no treatment for COVID-19

I think that you’re confusing ‘antibodies’ with ‘antibiotics’. The latter are useless against a virus and are prescribed to fight bacterial infections. Antibodies cannot be administered directly but are produced by the human body (sometimes as a result of a vaccination) to fight both bacteria and viruses.

My thoughts, what are your's

by SeaTraveler, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 22:26 (140 days ago) @ The Fez

Actually, antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 can be administered if obtained from acute convalescent serum, as was done for Ebola. But it's a sophisticated procedure to obtain the acute convalescent serum. Certainly can be done in Mexico, if the government is willing.

My thoughts, what are your's

by The Fez ⌂ @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 22:58 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

Yes, that's right. I believe that doctors in New York may be trying this to deal with the high rate of COVID-19 cases in that state.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 23:32 (140 days ago) @ The Fez

I am not confusing antibiotics for antibodies. There are antiviral antibiotics that are useful for influenza. To be effective they need to be started within the first 48 hours. The most frequently prescribed is Tamiflu. And FWIW I’m a doc.

My thoughts, what are your's

by SeaTraveler, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 09:09 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

Likewise, up in Seattle. Unfortunately, as you know, oseltamivir has no activity against coronaviruses despite being fairly effective against influenza A. Would that it were otherwise! Remdesivir has activity against a variety of single-stranded RNA viruses including coronaviruses. But it is given IV, and there's not a huge supply although Gilead is trying to make it available via expanded access as much as possible.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 10:20 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

I really wasn't suggesting that it did. It was implied that I didn't know the difference between antibiotics and antibodies when I said that there were antibiotics that were effective against influenza. Hopefully they will find something soon. I'm thankful I've retired from being an ER doc.

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:32 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

If you are a doctor I don’t want to be treated by you. There is no such thing as an “antiviral antibiotic” Antiviral medications treat viruses. Antibiotics treat bacterial infections. Please don’t conflate the two. Just admit you made a mistake in your prior post and own it. Everyone makes mistakes

My thoughts, what are your's

by midalake @, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:38 (140 days ago) @ nicatnit

If you are a doctor I don’t want to be treated by you. There is no such thing as an “antiviral antibiotic” Antiviral medications treat viruses. Antibiotics treat bacterial infections. Please don’t conflate the two. Just admit you made a mistake in your prior post and own it. Everyone makes mistakes

Are U a doctor nitnit?

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 05:59 (139 days ago) @ midalake

No I’m not a doctor. But my sister is a virologist and we talk regularly regarding Covid 19. For what it’s worth she’s a Liberal and I’m a Conservative so our viewpoints on this crisis started in complete different starting points. My viewpoint has completely shifted from the beginning as I thought Covid 19 was a bad form of Influenza being whipped up by the media during an election year. I could not have been more wrong. I live in the US and when extreme actions were being implemented in San Francisco and California at large by their liberal leaders, I thought the actions were a huge government overreach, but in retrospect those leaders deserve our respect for taking bold action. The rest of the nation has come together for the most part. I hope that Mexico finally wakes up like the rest of us now that Phase 2 has arrived. It would be a pity if Mexico becomes the next Italy or Spain. In the US we have half the cases in New York and it is a battle. For those critical of President Trump, some of the criticism is warranted for the lag and unpreparedness for the sortage of PPE gear. But we are on the right track now and his handling of the crisis has gained high approval (60%) of Americans. Each day there is a detailed briefing and coordination with the States Governers is helping to get the crisis under control. During times of crisis politics needs to take a back seat to getting through the crisis. Though not related to your question I rambled on but I tend to do that

My thoughts, what are your's

by Canada Pete, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:41 (140 days ago) @ nicatnit

Virantmycin


I'm no Doctor, but I'd sure listen to one.

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:15 (139 days ago) @ Canada Pete

There is widespread confusion about whether antibiotics can treat viruses. I just simply pointed that out. The term “antibiotic antiviral” is quite misleading. Antiviral medication is the better term.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 12:52 (139 days ago) @ nicatnit

Just using a common term that lay people would understand. No worries about me being your doctor, wouldn't accept you as a patient.:stirpot:

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:01 (139 days ago) @ Timmac

As a term that a layperson could understand, it’s actually a conflicting term, but I get your point.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:25 (139 days ago) @ nicatnit

My 40+ years of experience in explaining to patients what the medicine is for has led me to explain it in these terms, If I say "Anitviral" they say "what's that?" And I tell them it is an antibiotic that works on viruses. Yes, it is not actually right, but the goal is to get the patient to understand.

Remember the original post was in response to someone who said that COVID-19 was no worse than the flu.I pointed out that the flu was treatable while COvid-19 (as yet) was not.

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 19:01 (138 days ago) @ Timmac

OK That makes sense.

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:23 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

There is currently no accurate information about the mortality rate of Covid 19. 2% is pure speculation. It’s relatively easy to determine the deaths associated with this virus, but no way to determine the amount of infections.
Also, antibiotics do not work to treat or prevent Ifluenza, which is viral not bacterial. In fact antibiotics as a remedy for flu can be detrimental

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 12:57 (139 days ago) @ nicatnit

You feel compelled to nit pick-about terms. The antiviarl drugs can indeed be used prophylactically to attempt to prevent influenza in close contacts. Some of them are oseltamivir, zanamivir, rimantadine and amantadine.

My thoughts, what are your's

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:06 (139 days ago) @ Timmac

I wasn’t trying to nit pick about terms, There is widespread confusion about viral versus bacterial infections. And the treatments for each. I get your point, but I thought the distinction is an important one.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:28 (139 days ago) @ nicatnit

Not for patients. They need to know, in terms they can understand, what a medicine does.

They patient with hypertension really doesn't care if they are given a beta blocker or an ACE inhibitor. They want to know what the medicine does and side effect to be aware of,

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Me gusta!

by Bonnie @, wherever you go, there you are..., Thursday, March 26, 2020, 07:17 (139 days ago) @ Timmac

.

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The Experts' Advice

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 20:08 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

You seem to get it. The simple idea that some (worst of all, Rob Whitehead) cannot comprehend: this is a virus epidemic, spread by person-to-person contact. The ONLY way to interrupt the spread is to break that person-to-person contact cycle. By the time Rob and his hero, AMLO, can start to count dead bodies, the battle will have been lost several weeks earlier. Zihuatanejo y el estado de Guerrero may have a chance right now to interrupt the person-to-person spread that is how any epidemic occurs. But only if they take action now = stop the person-to-person contact.

Interesting data out tonight on what is happening in Kentucky (where the governor took decisive action quickly and early several weeks ago) vs. neighboring Tennessee (where the governor is still dawdling): huge differences in deaths at this point. Will only get worse.

Keep advocating for people to stay at home and spare one another! It's the kindest thing everyone can do.

Cheers from Seattle (sorry you can't shop here now; neither can we).

Jeeeze, hey if you've got something to say to me you don't have to write e-mails then criticize me in replies to others. I'm not the enemy or an adversary.

If there is no contagion locally, what rationale is there for shutting everything down and hiding indoors? You give conflicting advice, then criticize me for following the advice of an expert team in the field who are analyzing the situation and making the decisions that we, the public, follow. Schools are closed. Public events postponed or cancelled. There's hardly a tourist around. We are practicing safe distancing and good hygiene. So what exactly is it you want us to do? If the experts have it wrong then surely you've contacted them to let them know, but please stop taking shots at me for following their advice. We are not in the same condition as Italy, China, Spain, the UK, the USA or Canada. Measures are being taken when and where necessary. There have been 5 cases so far diagnosed in the entire state of Guerrero. All in either Acapulco or Chilpancingo, hundreds of topes away (that's an inside joke). No deaths in Guerrero. Last I heard Michoacán still didn't have any cases. Everyone knows that soon we may be asked to take more restrictive measures, but because we have to balance being able to make our daily sustenance with the health contingency, restrictive measures are being applied perhaps more carefully than they were in some other places. The rate at which the cases are doubling in Mexico is nowhere near that of China, Spain, Italy, the USA, the UK or Canada when they had as many cases as we do or after reporting their first case, so it doesn't make sense for us to be taking the same measures as they are even if they were apparently late. Mexico began taking action on January 3rd, weeks ahead of most other countries including the USA. It has spent its time wisely planning, preparing and advising the public. Not overreacting is part of their advice. Staying attentive to their alerts is another. Mexicans are doing a wonderful job keeping each other informed.

The Experts' Advice

by SeaTraveler, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 21:19 (140 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I did write to you personally, so as not to embarrass you publicly on your own board. But you don't seem to get it. I have never insulted your intelligence, but I must question your knowledge and wonder why you refuse to learn?

You assail anyone on this board who questions you, and claim YOUR info sources are superior and trustworthy while others are not. You almost sound like a Trumpian.

The reality of communicable diseases epidemics is that by the time you can count sick people and dead people, it's all over. The transmission of the infectious vector was long before the dying showed up. THAT is what you seem to be impervious to learning. The time to break the person-to-person infection cycle in Zihuatanejo i NOW, no matter how slavishly you believe yoru Saint AMLO will protect you.

Wail all your can, it's your board. As Schilled wrote in 1801, "with stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain!"

Ban me if that will make you feel better. It won't change the reality of an epidemic. And you will regret your foolish blindness to how you could help now.

P.S.: Its Johnzzzzzzzz Hopkins.

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The Experts' Advice

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 23:04 (140 days ago) @ SeaTraveler

I did write to you personally, so as not to embarrass you publicly on your own board. But you don't seem to get it. I have never insulted your intelligence, but I must question your knowledge and wonder why you refuse to learn?

You assail anyone on this board who questions you, and claim YOUR info sources are superior and trustworthy while others are not. You almost sound like a Trumpian.

The reality of communicable diseases epidemics is that by the time you can count sick people and dead people, it's all over. The transmission of the infectious vector was long before the dying showed up. THAT is what you seem to be impervious to learning. The time to break the person-to-person infection cycle in Zihuatanejo i NOW, no matter how slavishly you believe yoru Saint AMLO will protect you.

Wail all your can, it's your board. As Schilled wrote in 1801, "with stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain!"

Ban me if that will make you feel better. It won't change the reality of an epidemic. And you will regret your foolish blindness to how you could help now.

P.S.: Its Johnzzzzzzzz Hopkins.

I’m not embarrassed in the least, but you should be for making erroneous assumptions, bad conclusions, and once again repeating what has already been covered. So if you keep telling me I don’t get it because you insist I shouldn’t trust our authorities, who so far have one of the best results among all the nations infected, but instead should jump on the panic wagon where you are, you only repeat your error.

Yeah, JOHNS FRIGGIN HOPKINS was what I typed but I missed the SPELLCHECKed typo. Odd how that was more important to you than everything I’ve said that you’ve chosen to ignore, misinterpret, and criticize me for. Buy hey, thanks. I still believe you mean well.

The Experts' Advice

by nicatnit, Thursday, March 26, 2020, 06:18 (139 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Gotta love that spell check. Gets me every time. I’m glad you can take the crap that comes your way over some of the little stuff. This board is not for the timid.

The Experts' Advice

by tja @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 22:07 (140 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Mexico is still in good shape, ahead of the curve. You have a lot of influence in the community. Don't waste it. Social distancing is the only hope. Please help to spread the message. Agreed, difficult there, but every attempt should be made. Bus loads of Semana Santa visitors is a potential horror show.

The Experts' Advice

by SeaTraveler, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 22:22 (140 days ago) @ tja

:megusta:

The Experts' Advice

by nicatnit, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 11:43 (139 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Unfortunately overreacting to the situation is what is required. I held exactly your position 2 weeks ago. We are in Indiana so not exactly a hot spot of contagion. But then the signs started to emerge that overwhelming action is needed before you realize there is a problem. Not unlike a frog in water bearing heated. I completely understand López Obradors position on the virus. It’s similar to our President from a few weeks ago. It’s a tough choice, do you totally screw up the economy and scare the people into panic or do take a more measured approach. At the end of the day for us, the short term panic and economic burn seems right, though never did I think I would arrive at this conclusion. I hope México gets lucky to dodge the bullet. There is still so much we don’t yet know about this viscous virus. Here’s to looking forward to the world returning to normal.

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My thoughts, what are your's

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 15:15 (140 days ago) @ islandgirl

Maybe Rob will let us do a book club here. Or at least good read suggestions for the time you have staying at home.

The public library in Hamilton MT gives away books they don't want/need. Last time I stopped there, I found "Homegrown Democrat" by Garrison Keillor. I opened it up and found a stamp from The Phillips Public Library in Phillips WI. A great read! Now it's in Zihua waiting to be read by one of our renters. At the same source, I also found "Sex For Christians". Haven't been able to make myself read it, just to find out that I've been doing it wrong for all these years.

--
[image]
Casa Amarilla Vacation Rental
http://www.casaamarillazihua.com/

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My thoughts, what are your's

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 16:44 (140 days ago) @ frostbite

If the book tells you you’re doing it wrong, you could always try a better religion.:devil:

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Better religion?

by casamanzana @, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 17:39 (140 days ago) @ Timmac

"Better religion"....now there's a can of worms if I ever saw one!

--
ZIHUATANEJO- A QUAINT LITTLE DRINKING VILLAGE WITH A FISHING PROBLEM.
[image]

Books

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 21:11 (140 days ago) @ frostbite

I read a lot for work. Legal documents, scientific reports, old/new books, policies, papers.....
So when I get home I want something light hearted and frivolous. Something like The Food of Love by Anthony Capella. If you are a foodie, it is a must, but be warned, your mouth will water throughout the entire read.
Set in Italy, it is a Cyrano de Bergerac story, except with food instead love letters. Good fun, easy read.

Sorry, I don't how to embed

by Skink, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 16:18 (139 days ago) @ islandgirl

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But I do - Oh yeah!

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 17:52 (139 days ago) @ Skink

Fixed it for ya.

Esto es el pilón. ¡Súbelo! :stones:


https://youtu.be/DmgCy__eUa8

But I do - Oh yeah!

by Skink, Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 18:01 (139 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Many thanks Rob