Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Monday, July 20, 2020, 00:41 (131 days ago)

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by midalake @, Monday, July 20, 2020, 08:49 (131 days ago) @ cd69

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/opinion/after-a-20-year-relationship-im-giving-up-on-mexico/?fbclid=IwAR3hIV3o7O9K31SSH2QFXOpuN4Qb2Z_vtrAdol2scGFaJzCWT...

Well buying property in the boondocks was and IS a major mistake. Yes I do believe Mexico is bad right now.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, July 20, 2020, 09:24 (131 days ago) @ cd69

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/opinion/after-a-20-year-relationship-im-giving-up-on-mexico/?fbclid=IwAR3hIV3o7O9K31SSH2QFXOpuN4Qb2Z_vtrAdol2scGFaJzCWT...

Sounds like just another sad story about a fool and his money, with a bonus hit piece on AMLO that the Mexico News loves to publish. Sad but predictable.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa, Monday, July 20, 2020, 19:43 (130 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

We SO agree.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 06:17 (130 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

No it doesn’t. How insensitive of you to say that. You run a travel website. And this is how you view the situation, unreal?!

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 08:14 (130 days ago) @ nicatnit

No it doesn’t. How insensitive of you to say that. You run a travel website. And this is how you view the situation, unreal?!

I'm just being honest. You want me to pretend I'm all indignant because some rich dentist from Texas decided to be careless with his money in a country he clearly did not understand? All of us who live here have to know what the limits are, what lines not to cross, and what things NOT to do. Kind of like being black in the USA.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by SteveinDanville, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 16:51 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

And just what was it that this man...and his brother...do that made their lives down there so wrong? It looks to me like they were men, especially the author, that were set on improving things in their particular corners of Mexico. I'd like to know what the dentist did wrong.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Casa Juan @, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 16:54 (129 days ago) @ SteveinDanville

I had the same question.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Paulf @, Mount Sterling, Ky 40353, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 17:43 (129 days ago) @ Casa Juan

Reading Rob's post, it reads like if you have made money and want to come to Mexico- stay in the States. I do know rich oil men drove up the price of real estate there- it hurt the retirees that could live cheaper in Mexico than in the States and the local citizens that wanted to buy property. I met a owner of a restaurant in Patzquaro had wanted to move there but because of the price of property bought a house in Patzquaro and remolded it then opened a restaurant and sold a special glass at his restaurant- Kathie fell in love with a couple of pieces and bought them.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 18:17 (129 days ago) @ Casa Juan

I had the same question.

I don't even think the man's woes were the point of the article. I think the rub against AMLO was the point of the article. Just because he isn't continuing Calderón's proxy war for the USA, he is a target by folks who prosper from wars, chaos and corruption.

But yeah, if armed men show up at your door because you bought a ranch in the boonies and they want to steal your land, the cops are NOT coming if you can even get them to answer the phone, which they won't even do here anymore.

Oh, and yes, our system of courts and justice is severely broken. There's some FREE advice for you if you weren't already aware, which anyone who picks up a newspaper in any part of Mexico should be able to discern. Unless you don't bother to learn the language and only deal with folks who seek to prosper from you.

I'm not understanding where the disconnect is with some of you over this. The man appears not to have done his homework before sinking a lot of money into risky if not odd ventures in Mexico. He was SURPRISED the police didn't show up with sirens blaring and lights flashing to arrest the bad guys. Hell, we didn't even expect that from our cops in Florida back when I lived there.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 18:51 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 18:01 (129 days ago) @ SteveinDanville

And just what was it that this man...and his brother...do that made their lives down there so wrong? It looks to me like they were men, especially the author, that were set on improving things in their particular corners of Mexico. I'd like to know what the dentist did wrong.

Uh, well, obviously they didn't know what they were getting into. He seemed to think he was moving to Texas South. A lot of folks get lucky and nothing really bad happens to them. We have a lot of those here who think this is just like Southern California or Florida, until they have a run in with armed men or get a phone call from someone who seems to know all about them and wants a lot of money not to kill their family member. Don't know how many times folks need to read about something before it hits them that Mexico is not like Kansas (thank goodness).

We have wrought iron on our windows for a REASON.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 18:51 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by jay @, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 20:52 (129 days ago) @ SteveinDanville

This man had every right to spend his money any way he wished and to expect the protection of the law. But given the checkered relationship Mexico has had with law enforcement and the legal system, having a lot of property and living ostentatiously may not have been the smart play. You can be rich is Mexico, but if you're not willing to hire your own security, you would be wise to live modestly and keep a low profile.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by anyhowe, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 11:43 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Your response is far more sad than the story. Wow. What fool putting money into the bank and expecting it to be there.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by mexicoman @, Zihuatanejo, Monday, July 20, 2020, 09:28 (131 days ago) @ cd69

Part of Mexico? This story stretches from Chetumal on the southeast border to Puerto Aventura near Playa Del Carmen, to San Miguel in the middle, to Puerto Vallarta on the west coast, to Tamaulipas on the Texas border. Covers the country end to end, side to side.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Keytime, Monday, July 20, 2020, 14:52 (130 days ago) @ mexicoman

A visitor in a foreign country should remain that in practice and projection. Be humble and live humble. You want to make a fortune, go do it in US, Canada or Singapore. Mexico is not a county you want to wealthy in or give the impression of wealth. You want to be richer than stink and be safe everywhere you go, move to Singapore.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ToddJerad @, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 00:41 (130 days ago) @ Keytime

From his account, he refurbished run down properties, helped save the ecosystem around his land, employed many people with jobs & housing... The lack of a police presence to show up in a reasonable time, as your property is being invaded, seems like an “everybody“ kind of problem?

odd story though.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 06:21 (130 days ago) @ Keytime

What total BS. Justify violence against foreigners, I get it.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 13:23 (129 days ago) @ nicatnit

What total BS. Justify violence against foreigners, I get it.

No one is justifying anything. This guy appears to have had Kumbaya On The Brain and totally ignored the reality that is our daily life in Mexico. Hey, want to blow a few million trying to make the world a better place? Go buy a U.S. politician! Seems like everyone's doing it these days. Russians. Arabs. Jews. Chinese. Koch Brothers.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 07:22 (128 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

If you put money in a bank you should expect for it not be stolen in a civilized country

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 08:34 (128 days ago) @ nicatnit

If you put money in a bank you should expect for it not be stolen in a civilized country

Tell that to Bernie Madoff's investors. Or the students of Trump University.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Lilyana @, Friday, July 24, 2020, 21:46 (126 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Helene @, Zih, Friday, July 24, 2020, 09:32 (127 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Very insensitive remark on your part. I'm surprised at you. Or maybe I'm not. Russians, arabs, JEWS, chinese, and koch brothers. Thanks for keeping the anti-Semitism alive and well.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, July 24, 2020, 10:25 (127 days ago) @ Helene

Very insensitive remark on your part. I'm surprised at you. Or maybe I'm not. Russians, arabs, JEWS, chinese, and koch brothers. Thanks for keeping the anti-Semitism alive and well.

You're welcome. You know me, an equal opportunity atheist.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Paulf @, Mount Sterling, Ky 40353, Friday, July 24, 2020, 13:15 (127 days ago) @ Helene

Why is it Soros (spelling) is always left out.He he is one of the biggest supporters of Liberal causes and is worse than the brothers. Was rumored he has been supporting the agitators with money.

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Nothing to do with Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, July 24, 2020, 13:37 (127 days ago) @ Paulf

Why is it Soros (spelling) is always left out.He he is one of the biggest supporters of Liberal causes and is worse than the brothers. Was rumored he has been supporting the agitators with money.

Nothing to do with Zihuatanejo or Mexico.

But my curiosity can't help but wonder how you know George Soros is helping the PEACEFUL PROTESTERS SEEKING TO END INSTITUTIONALIZED RACIAL INJUSTICE, why you think that would be bad if he were, and why you call them "agitators", ignoring the overwhelming majority of peaceful protestors being more patriotic than almost any Republican in the nation has been for over 40 years now since before Republicans bribed Iranian hostage takers to KEEP the U.S. hostages until AFTER Reagan was sworn in. Then they sold COCAINE to pay for the ILLEGAL WEAPONS, part of the deal with the Iranians, and even threw in a PHONY ILLEGAL WAR to try to cover up the deal.

I can't wait to hear this.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Ernie Gorrie ⌂ @, Friday, July 24, 2020, 14:14 (126 days ago) @ Paulf

Paulf wrote:

Why is it Soros (spelling) is always left out.He he is one of the biggest supporters of Liberal causes and is worse than the brothers. Was rumored he has been supporting the agitators with money.

George Soros isn't "always left out" I see him referred to repeatedly. Usually with innuendo, not well-researched, verifiable facts.

Even if he were, "always left out", if all there is is rumours, I think you answered your own question. Anyone can start a rumour about anything.

In any case, what is wrong with supporting agitators? No society is perfect. No society improves through complacency. Agitators are necessary to create change.

--
www.dreaminmexico.com

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 06:19 (130 days ago) @ mexicoman

Clearly not the boondocks is it? San Miguel how sad ruined by the Narcos.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 08:20 (130 days ago) @ nicatnit

Clearly not the boondocks is it? San Miguel how sad ruined by the Narcos.

And who do we have to thank for those violent organized criminals armed to the teeth with assault weapons including .50 cal Barretts and millions of rounds of ammunition? Is that Mexico's fault?

Most of the folks who live in San Miguel de Allende think it's quite an enchanting place to live. Un Pueblo Mágico.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Fly on the Wall, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 09:58 (130 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

So what can Mexico do about the gun problem coming in from the US .....lobby to change the US constitution ? Realistically Mexico Is only a bystander in this issue , albeit greatly affected by it . Keep on beating your head against the wall and railing about it all being the US’s fault. I’ll go along with that but so what does Mexico do in the meantime , continue watching as the cartels become more violent and brazen ? ....more hugs and kisses from AMLO and his supporters /?

You call the man a fool for coming to Mexico , settling and starting up new ventures that employed Mexican people . The foreign owned auto industry and other manufacturers didn’t come to Mexico out of the goodness of their hearts .....boil it down to all its crassness they came to make money . When the cartels get around to squeezing them do you think they will stay ?

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 10:53 (130 days ago) @ Fly on the Wall

So what can Mexico do about the gun problem coming in from the US .....lobby to change the US constitution ? Realistically Mexico Is only a bystander in this issue , albeit greatly affected by it . Keep on beating your head against the wall and railing about it all being the US’s fault. I’ll go along with that but so what does Mexico do in the meantime , continue watching as the cartels become more violent and brazen ? ....more hugs and kisses from AMLO and his supporters /?

You call the man a fool for coming to Mexico , settling and starting up new ventures that employed Mexican people . The foreign owned auto industry and other manufacturers didn’t come to Mexico out of the goodness of their hearts .....boil it down to all its crassness they came to make money . When the cartels get around to squeezing them do you think they will stay ?

There's too much blatantly wrong with your comments for me to spend the time clarifying and correcting at the moment. Before anyone invests here they should know the lay of the land and how things work. Apparently the dentist didn't have a friggin clue what he was getting involved in. He expected the police to come when he called them? While armed men were present? Ha! He flaunted his wealth, got involved in things he shouldn't have, and lost a bundle. It's an old story, and I've seen it happen in the States, too, with lots of dreamy eyed people moving to Florida with their millions and getting taken by the flim-flammers there.

The auto industries and other big investors know the game and how to play it. That's why Odebrecht is STILL being investigated and why heads are still rolling. Even Walmart got their hand slapped a few years back for getting caught paying bribes. And you may want to look into Canada's mining ventures here in Guerrero and think long and hard about whether they are part of the problem or the solution or something else entirely. Lots of dead ecologistas up and down America are testament to the excesses of foreign investors.

Mexico won't legalize the recreational drug business beyond cannabis any more than the USA will at the present time because our collective societies aren't mature or wise enough, but maybe in 50 years or so they will have their collective epiphanies. Too bad we won't be alive to see what's left of our countries by then.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Purplehaze, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 20:41 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

The story is very sad. So many people love Mexico just because it is a cheap place to live. The lawlessness is increasing. The Banco Monex fraud is very alarming. Very harmful to totally innocent people. AMLO is another disappointing president.
The Mexican people deserve better.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Casa Juan @, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 20:42 (129 days ago) @ Purplehaze

:megusta:

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 23:07 (129 days ago) @ Purplehaze

The story is very sad. So many people love Mexico just because it is a cheap place to live. The lawlessness is increasing. The Banco Monex fraud is very alarming. Very harmful to totally innocent people. AMLO is another disappointing president.
The Mexican people deserve better.

Oh, and what, pray tell, is México‘s president not doing that you think he should be? And exactly what role should the national and state governments be playing? Because it sure looks to me like business as usual for everyone EXCEPT the Presidente here in Mexico. Except somehow he is the only one among our executive representatives NOT to get ill. Just sayin...

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Purplehaze, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 12:00 (129 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Less on the amulets and more on the science would be nice on the covid situation. Less on the hugs and visits to El Chapo’s Mum and more on security and the rule of the state instead of the cartels would be nice too

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 13:15 (129 days ago) @ Purplehaze

Less on the amulets and more on the science would be nice on the covid situation. Less on the hugs and visits to El Chapo’s Mum and more on security and the rule of the state instead of the cartels would be nice too

You really should've learned by now how to discern worthless propaganda from actual news. Amulets? Come on. Do we have to go over that again? I really dislike having to repeat myself. FAKE NEWS

And WOW, did you miss the entire AMLO campaign and election? Mexico is not going to continue fighting the USA's proxy war on drugs. That's one of the reasons he won the election by an overwhelming majority. Though neither Mexico nor the USA can do what needs doing and legalize or at least decriminalize popular recreational substances. One's population is too dumbed down and the other's is too indoctrinated by the Catholic church. Maybe in 50 more years.

No, AMLO didn't visit with El Chapo's mom. She delivered a letter to him as is common with our presidents receiving requests from all kinds of citizens to redress wrongs, in this case the sham trial and barbarous treatment of El Chapo by U.S. federal authorities. But good job reciting the lies AMLO's opposition wants you to believe and repeat.

The rule of law is moving along nicely. The Guardia Nacional is doing its job. Corruption is being fought. Corrupt judges are being removed. Perhaps if the opposition weren't so focused on sensationalizing phony scandals and spending every single day criticizing instead of proposing and working together, Mexico could solve some of its problems more efficaciously. But nothing we have in Mexico even comes close to the dysfunctional U.S. government with the tag team of #MoscowMitch and #BunkerBrat backed by the StormTroopers gassing pregnant moms and intentionally inciting violence while ignoring the real threats from white nationalists who we all know are big time Chump supporters. ¡Viva México!
:vivamexico:

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by midalake @, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 15:11 (128 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Less on the amulets and more on the science would be nice on the covid situation. Less on the hugs and visits to El Chapo’s Mum and more on security and the rule of the state instead of the cartels would be nice too


You really should've learned by now how to discern worthless propaganda from actual news. Amulets? Come on. Do we have to go over that again? I really dislike having to repeat myself. FAKE NEWS

And WOW, did you miss the entire AMLO campaign and election? Mexico is not going to continue fighting the USA's proxy war on drugs. That's one of the reasons he won the election by an overwhelming majority. Though neither Mexico nor the USA can do what needs doing and legalize or at least decriminalize popular recreational substances. One's population is too dumbed down and the other's is too indoctrinated by the Catholic church. Maybe in 50 more years.

No, AMLO didn't visit with El Chapo's mom. She delivered a letter to him as is common with our presidents receiving requests from all kinds of citizens to redress wrongs, in this case the sham trial and barbarous treatment of El Chapo by U.S. federal authorities. But good job reciting the lies AMLO's opposition wants you to believe and repeat.

The rule of law is moving along nicely. The Guardia Nacional is doing its job. Corruption is being fought. Corrupt judges are being removed. Perhaps if the opposition weren't so focused on sensationalizing phony scandals and spending every single day criticizing instead of proposing and working together, Mexico could solve some of its problems more efficaciously. But nothing we have in Mexico even comes close to the dysfunctional U.S. government with the tag team of #MoscowMitch and #BunkerBrat backed by the StormTroopers gassing pregnant moms and intentionally inciting violence while ignoring the real threats from white nationalists who we all know are big time Chump supporters. ¡Viva México!
:vivamexico:

For those you you who do not know what the "America's" is please look this up on a map!

I can not think of a LARGER issue in many portions of this land mass that are a DIRECT THREAT to all of us more than Organized Crime.

I am ready for the United States to partner with who ever wants to be rid of this VERMIN. It should be a blanket KILL THEM ALL and let GOD sort them out!:jam:

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by nicatnit, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 07:29 (128 days ago) @ midalake

Amazing, something we both agree on.. That’s a surprise.

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by Ernie Gorrie ⌂ @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 10:35 (128 days ago) @ midalake

Midalake wrote:

I am ready for the United States to partner with who ever wants to be rid of this VERMIN. It should be a blanket KILL THEM ALL and let GOD sort them out!:jam:

The basic operating model of the USA is consumer capitalism. As long as there is a demand for products there will be supply. The cost will be determined by supply and demand. “Price” is only one aspect of “cost”. Cost includes human lives.

The USA tried eradicating the supply decades ago by cutting off the air and maritime supply routes from South America to Florida and nearby states. Of course, the demand remained, the suppliers remained, and the alternative routes through Mexico were developed. (Canadians can be glad that the narcos chose Mexico and not Canada as the route to access the US market.)

“Kill them all”? We have seen what happens when cartels are seriously damaged. New “leaderships” fight it out for control.

“Kill them all”? Imagine the bloodbaths that would occur as new, inexperienced suppliers entered the market.

As long as the demand for drugs in the USA is there, there will be suppliers. I think that either the demand for drugs in the USA has to drop dramatically, or safe, regulated, cost-effective supplies have to be made available.

“Kill them all”? Wasn’t that the US strategy in Vietnam? We know how that worked out.

--
www.dreaminmexico.com

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by midalake @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 10:58 (128 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

Midalake wrote:

I am ready for the United States to partner with who ever wants to be rid of this VERMIN. It should be a blanket KILL THEM ALL and let GOD sort them out!:jam:

The basic operating model of the USA is consumer capitalism. As long as there is a demand for products there will be supply. The cost will be determined by supply and demand. “Price” is only one aspect of “cost”. Cost includes human lives.

The USA tried eradicating the supply decades ago by cutting off the air and maritime supply routes from South America to Florida and nearby states. Of course, the demand remained, the suppliers remained, and the alternative routes through Mexico were developed. (Canadians can be glad that the narcos chose Mexico and not Canada as the route to access the US market.)

“Kill them all”? We have seen what happens when cartels are seriously damaged. New “leaderships” fight it out for control.

“Kill them all”? Imagine the bloodbaths that would occur as new, inexperienced suppliers entered the market.

As long as the demand for drugs in the USA is there, there will be suppliers. I think that either the demand for drugs in the USA has to drop dramatically, or safe, regulated, cost-effective supplies have to be made available.

“Kill them all”? Wasn’t that the US strategy in Vietnam? We know how that worked out.

Poster Ernie. A little bit of a misread in my definition. Lets l@@k at the term "organized crime". Drugs like you alluded to, but ALSO INCLUDES:
Kidnapping
Trafficking of Women/Children
Gasoline theft
Protection Payments of all sorts.

THIS IS WHY the threat is so great to any society.

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by Ernie Gorrie ⌂ @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 17:03 (127 days ago) @ midalake

Midalake wrote:

Lets l@@k at the term "organized crime". Drugs like you alluded to, but ALSO INCLUDES:
Kidnapping
Trafficking of Women/Children
Gasoline theft
Protection Payments of all sorts.

THIS IS WHY the threat is so great to any society.

Yes, the examples you include are aspects of broader organized crime. Kidnapping, exploitation of women and children, thefts, "protection"... Exploiters of vulnerable people in society have had victims for generations. Some of the activities have gone on for millennia.

(I remember stumbling on the 2002 movie title "Gangs of New York". I started watching it, thinking it would be about gangs in the new millennium. It turned out to be about gangs in the mid-1800s.)

With regard to organized crime in Mexico, I think there have been seismic changes in recent years. The severe restrictions on the Caribbean route of drugs to the USA resulted in the tremendous increase in drug flow through Mexico. This gave tremendous growth to the cartels. They expanded terrifically. As with most businesses in capitalism, increased wealth resulted in expansion and diversification. When did the mob start its control or influence of gambling in the US? I knew a physician who did a locum at a hospital in the US. When the physician got there others were surprised that they didn't understand that the hospital was largely funded by organized crime. (I don't know whether the hospital was funded by organized crime, but that was the belief of many who worked there.)

Mexican organized crime is even diversifying into attempts to control legitimate commodity business like avocados.

Yes, organized crime is a problem. The activities they exploit and profit from are criminal, so organized crime operate those activities.

But what if the "vices" were not crimes. Gambling gave criminals great profit. That profit and control has reduced through legalized, regulated gambling. Cannabis gave criminals profit and control. Legalization and regulation has significantly reduced that. The profits from other drugs can also be drained from criminal organizations. The exploitation of women and the control of women's bodies through pimping can similarly be reduced through legalization and regulation.

We had a war on drugs.

Drugs won.

We have other wars that will not be won, and civilians are the casualties.

We need to negotiate a detente.

--
www.dreaminmexico.com

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by Fly on the Wall, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 19:55 (127 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

Negotiate a detente ........sounds to me like “ Peace for (in) our time”

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by Ernie Gorrie ⌂ @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 22:49 (127 days ago) @ Fly on the Wall

Negotiate a detente ........sounds to me like “ Peace for (in) our time”

Chamberlain said that before the war. I suggest the war on drugs has been fought and lost.

We don’t have to like it, but I suggest the alternative is what has existed between the Koreas.

“No peace for our time.”

The constant draining of resources to the military in one instance and to hospitals, morgues, policing, courts, and jails in the other instance.

--
www.dreaminmexico.com

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by jay @, Friday, July 24, 2020, 02:02 (127 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

I always thought Chamberlain got a bad rap for his "peace in our time" statement. Between the wars Britain rebuilt its navy to protect its empire, at the expense of its other armed forces; apparently France was preparing for an 18th century war; and the US, standing down after World War I, had no stomach for another European war. And all were asleep at the wheel. In 1938 the western powers had no ability to slow down Hitler, much less stop him. So Chamberlain bought some time by giving away chunks of Europe, the time Britain, and the US, desperately needed to rebuild its forces. And he has been vilified as a doormat and a quisling ever since.

It's always good and proper to make moral statements, like standing up to tyrants. But sometimes you just have to be practical no matter how distasteful it may be, especially if you're dealing from weakness like Chamberlain was. It's the same dynamic in the drug war. Just Say No and a prim disdain for illegal drugs might be fine moral statements, but they don't work as deterrents in the real world. Perhaps a more practical approach, like limited legalization, might work better.

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by allen @, Pacific Northwest, Friday, July 24, 2020, 03:53 (127 days ago) @ jay

Portugal.

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by Fly on the Wall, Friday, July 24, 2020, 06:45 (127 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

I’m no expert on Mexico but one thing I’m pretty sure of is that the criminal gangs and the Mexican people are heading for a showdown .

In my ‘pie in the sky “ moment I often wonder if the old Roman Republic’ approach might work In Republican Rome , when faced with a threat to survival or war , the Senate and People of Rome ( really only the Senate) would sometimes appoint a dictator to handle the crisis . He was given absolute authority over life and death which would end once the the crisis had abated . At that time he was expected to relinquish his powers and turn them back to the Senate and people of Rome . It worked a few times and then fell into disuse as the evolution of Imperial Rome began

The problem of course would be to find an honourable man who could command the respect of the people and the armed services, then be willing to step aside as a long term solution to the crisis was implemented

Do I ever see this happening ....NO .

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Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by mosesk @, Ojai, CA, USA, Friday, July 24, 2020, 09:24 (127 days ago) @ Fly on the Wall

I’m no expert on Mexico but one thing I’m pretty sure of is that the criminal gangs and the Mexican people are heading for a showdown .

In my ‘pie in the sky “ moment I often wonder if the old Roman Republic’ approach might work In Republican Rome , when faced with a threat to survival or war , the Senate and People of Rome ( really only the Senate) would sometimes appoint a dictator to handle the crisis . He was given absolute authority over life and death which would end once the the crisis had abated . At that time he was expected to relinquish his powers and turn them back to the Senate and people of Rome . It worked a few times and then fell into disuse as the evolution of Imperial Rome began

The problem of course would be to find an honourable man who could command the respect of the people and the armed services, then be willing to step aside as a long term solution to the crisis was implemented

Do I ever see this happening ....NO .

"Enlightened Despot"

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 09:49 (118 days ago) @ Fly on the Wall

The only armed services that could handle and crush the cartels are north of the border.

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Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 10:59 (118 days ago) @ nicatnit

The only armed services that could handle and crush the cartels are north of the border.

OH BULLSH¡T! Please keep your arrogance and bloodlust north of the border.

NOB is where the problem begins and ends for so many countries and regions around the world. Bad laws, failed policies and outright GREED perpetuated ad infinitum to justify you military expansion and meddling in foreign countries. One nation's chaos is another nation's opportunity. And you helped elect the latest version of corrupt fascist authoritarianism. You must be so proud to see federal troops used against U.S. cities.

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 17:49 (117 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I was only referring to the US Military, the best and most lethal in the world. That has nothing to do the rest of what you just said. Just the facts. The USA can kick ass militarily.

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Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 19:11 (117 days ago) @ nicatnit

I was only referring to the US Military, the best and most lethal in the world. That has nothing to do the rest of what you just said. Just the facts. The USA can kick ass militarily.

Except they haven’t actually done so since WWII when they were part of a much larger Allied force.

Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by nicatnit, Tuesday, August 04, 2020, 06:16 (116 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

They handled ISIS pretty well. But I get your point.

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Organized Crime In Mexico and Elsewhere

by hromero ⌂ @, Friday, July 24, 2020, 12:51 (127 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

:megusta:

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

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Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 11:07 (128 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

Midalake wrote:

I am ready for the United States to partner with who ever wants to be rid of this VERMIN. It should be a blanket KILL THEM ALL and let GOD sort them out!:jam:

The basic operating model of the USA is consumer capitalism. As long as there is a demand for products there will be supply. The cost will be determined by supply and demand. “Price” is only one aspect of “cost”. Cost includes human lives.

The USA tried eradicating the supply decades ago by cutting off the air and maritime supply routes from South America to Florida and nearby states. Of course, the demand remained, the suppliers remained, and the alternative routes through Mexico were developed. (Canadians can be glad that the narcos chose Mexico and not Canada as the route to access the US market.)

“Kill them all”? We have seen what happens when cartels are seriously damaged. New “leaderships” fight it out for control.

“Kill them all”? Imagine the bloodbaths that would occur as new, inexperienced suppliers entered the market.

As long as the demand for drugs in the USA is there, there will be suppliers. I think that either the demand for drugs in the USA has to drop dramatically, or safe, regulated, cost-effective supplies have to be made available.

“Kill them all”? Wasn’t that the US strategy in Vietnam? We know how that worked out.

Thanks for being such a clear-headed voice of reason with your thoughtful, insightful replies, Ernie.

No nation is equipped to win any so-called war on drugs. The multi-billion dollar a year demand ensures the narcos will always have more money and access to more resources than any government. The sad part is that with the incarceration or death of each capo, the successors seem to be more violent and less bound by any moral or ethical considerations. So arresting people like El Chapo only gives us more violence, not less, and the consumers never even notice a blip in the supply.

The capos of 30 years ago seem like gentlemen compared to the violent barbarians of today who appear to enjoy the cruelty of torture and dismemberment. All wars create monsters who thrive on the suffering of others. The war on drugs is no different.

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 09:52 (118 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I don’t think that happened after WWII. That was pretty final don’t you think?

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 09:43 (118 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

That strategy succeeded with ISIS. Better weapons. If we redid Vietnam today there would have been a completely different outcome.

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Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by mosesk @, Ojai, CA, USA, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 10:17 (118 days ago) @ nicatnit

That strategy succeeded with ISIS. Better weapons. If we redid Vietnam today there would have been a completely different outcome.

Weapons?

How about focusing on "hearts and minds"?

You do know what they are, right?

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Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by mexicoman @, Zihuatanejo, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 10:24 (118 days ago) @ mosesk

If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. Theodore Roosevelt.

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 17:53 (117 days ago) @ mexicoman

Touché

Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 17:53 (117 days ago) @ mosesk

Sure, but the Cartels have “Hearts and Minds”? Really! Their violence is right there with ISIS, but they really are the JV Team, to coin an Obama phrase. The USA military would demolish them into bits, little bits. What do you think would happen if an armed group of thugs tried to take over a state in the US? Oh wait, that’s happening in Oregon

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Sad story about the AMERICA'S

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 19:15 (117 days ago) @ nicatnit

Sure, but the Cartels have “Hearts and Minds”? Really! Their violence is right there with ISIS, but they really are the JV Team, to coin an Obama phrase. The USA military would demolish them into bits, little bits. What do you think would happen if an armed group of thugs tried to take over a state in the US? Oh wait, that’s happening in Oregon

You must be referring to The Chump’s mercenaries and white supremacist “friends”.

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by mexicoman @, Zihuatanejo, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 17:18 (128 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Less on the amulets and more on the science would be nice on the covid situation. Less on the hugs and visits to El Chapo’s Mum and more on security and the rule of the state instead of the cartels would be nice too


You really should've learned by now how to discern worthless propaganda from actual news. Amulets? Come on. Do we have to go over that again? I really dislike having to repeat myself. FAKE NEWS

And WOW, did you miss the entire AMLO campaign and election? Mexico is not going to continue fighting the USA's proxy war on drugs. That's one of the reasons he won the election by an overwhelming majority. Though neither Mexico nor the USA can do what needs doing and legalize or at least decriminalize popular recreational substances. One's population is too dumbed down and the other's is too indoctrinated by the Catholic church. Maybe in 50 more years.

No, AMLO didn't visit with El Chapo's mom. She delivered a letter to him as is common with our presidents receiving requests from all kinds of citizens to redress wrongs, in this case the sham trial and barbarous treatment of El Chapo by U.S. federal authorities. But good job reciting the lies AMLO's opposition wants you to believe and repeat.

The rule of law is moving along nicely. The Guardia Nacional is doing its job. Corruption is being fought. Corrupt judges are being removed. Perhaps if the opposition weren't so focused on sensationalizing phony scandals and spending every single day criticizing instead of proposing and working together, Mexico could solve some of its problems more efficaciously. But nothing we have in Mexico even comes close to the dysfunctional U.S. government with the tag team of #MoscowMitch and #BunkerBrat backed by the StormTroopers gassing pregnant moms and intentionally inciting violence while ignoring the real threats from white nationalists who we all know are big time Chump supporters. ¡Viva México!
:vivamexico:

Wish I could buy you a shot or 5

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 18:42 (128 days ago) @ mexicoman

Less on the amulets and more on the science would be nice on the covid situation. Less on the hugs and visits to El Chapo’s Mum and more on security and the rule of the state instead of the cartels would be nice too


You really should've learned by now how to discern worthless propaganda from actual news. Amulets? Come on. Do we have to go over that again? I really dislike having to repeat myself. FAKE NEWS

And WOW, did you miss the entire AMLO campaign and election? Mexico is not going to continue fighting the USA's proxy war on drugs. That's one of the reasons he won the election by an overwhelming majority. Though neither Mexico nor the USA can do what needs doing and legalize or at least decriminalize popular recreational substances. One's population is too dumbed down and the other's is too indoctrinated by the Catholic church. Maybe in 50 more years.

No, AMLO didn't visit with El Chapo's mom. She delivered a letter to him as is common with our presidents receiving requests from all kinds of citizens to redress wrongs, in this case the sham trial and barbarous treatment of El Chapo by U.S. federal authorities. But good job reciting the lies AMLO's opposition wants you to believe and repeat.

The rule of law is moving along nicely. The Guardia Nacional is doing its job. Corruption is being fought. Corrupt judges are being removed. Perhaps if the opposition weren't so focused on sensationalizing phony scandals and spending every single day criticizing instead of proposing and working together, Mexico could solve some of its problems more efficaciously. But nothing we have in Mexico even comes close to the dysfunctional U.S. government with the tag team of #MoscowMitch and #BunkerBrat backed by the StormTroopers gassing pregnant moms and intentionally inciting violence while ignoring the real threats from white nationalists who we all know are big time Chump supporters. ¡Viva México!
:vivamexico:


Wish I could buy you a shot or 5

:thumb: ¡Ajúaaa!
Just leave a bottle of Hornitos Reposado at the door and give a shout. B-)

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 18:49 (128 days ago) @ mexicoman

Bet you can. Let's all get together.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 07:25 (128 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

The only way México solves the cartel problem is:
A) Legalize Drugs in the USA and not just Marijuana and/or
B) call in the US Military and go full blown ISIS fighters
We know neither is going to happen

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by jay @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 15:16 (127 days ago) @ nicatnit
edited by jay, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 15:24

The only way México solves the cartel problem is:
A) Legalize Drugs in the USA and not just Marijuana and/or
B) call in the US Military and go full blown ISIS fighters
We know neither is going to happen


A. When it comes to legalization, I'm libertarian enough to want most drugs legalized, though highly regulated, but not all. No one wants to see coke and meth sold over the counter at 7-11. It seems like the best solution would be to make drugs easy enough to get legally (thereby undercutting the cartels); not so easy that it would result in a spike in addictions; yet not so difficult or expensive that it would result in a thriving black market. That's a very thin line to walk.

B. That's a very bad idea. I always find it puzzling that conservatives think that citizens of foreign countries always welcome US intervention, regardless of the severity of their own domestic problems. They never do. And it always ends badly for all concerned. (See Vietnam; Iraq; Portland; many others)

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 16:35 (127 days ago) @ jay

The only way México solves the cartel problem is:
A) Legalize Drugs in the USA and not just Marijuana and/or
B) call in the US Military and go full blown ISIS fighters
We know neither is going to happen


A. When it comes to legalization, I'm libertarian enough to want most drugs legalized, though highly regulated, but not all. No one wants to see coke and meth sold over the counter at 7-11. It seems like the best solution would be to make drugs easy enough to get legally (thereby undercutting the cartels); not so easy that it would result in a spike in addictions; yet not so difficult or expensive that it would result in a thriving black market. That's a very thin line to walk.

B. That's a very bad idea. I always find it puzzling that conservatives think that citizens of foreign countries always welcome US intervention, regardless of the severity of their own domestic problems. They never do. And it always ends badly for all concerned. (See Vietnam; Iraq; Portland; many others)

The misnamed Mexican-American War, the misnamed Spanish-American War, Iran-Contra, all based on lies from beginning to end. A pattern emerges.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 09:56 (118 days ago) @ jay

It worked against ISIS. Warfare has changed by quantum leaps. But like I mentioned, it’s not going to happen. The Mexican people wouldn’t support it. Unless society was near a meltdown.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by jay @, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 20:45 (117 days ago) @ nicatnit

It worked against ISIS

But not against Iraq and Afghanistan. Isis was poorly organized and poorly funded and only succeeded, such as it did, because most of Iraq was already devastated and its military was completely ineffective. There's an old adage that an insurgency can only succeed if they have at least the tacit support of 50% of the locals. Isis was so brutal that it likely didn't have a tenth of that, thus making it relatively easy to defeat. So it wasn't necessarily the awesomeness of the US military that won that battle. Any competent military could have accomplished that, though perhaps it would have taken longer.

The bigger problem is that Isis, once a step-child of Al Qaeda, has now melted back into the population, and will probably bide its time until it can reemerge under different leadership and under another name. Thus it ever was and is and shall be in the Middle East. If we continue this game, we'll be playing Whack-a-Mole there for generations. Perhaps better to leave that to the Iraqis.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Wednesday, July 22, 2020, 21:18 (128 days ago) @ Purplehaze

:megusta:

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Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by CathyMarie @, Nashville, Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 21:39 (129 days ago) @ cd69

The article was an opinion piece.

Sad story about the state of part of Mexico

by nicatnit, Sunday, August 02, 2020, 09:58 (118 days ago) @ CathyMarie

Based on facts and personal experience

Everyone is Their Own Hero

by Ernie Gorrie ⌂ @, Thursday, July 23, 2020, 10:11 (128 days ago) @ cd69

There is far too much to unpack in this snip of an autobiography to comment fully. But it does remind me of something I read years ago. “Everyone is the hero in their autobiography.” Reading this piece it appears that the writer sees themself as the hero in an unfair world.

I don’t doubt that bad things happened to the writer. Neither do I doubt that there is much information that is missing. In my daily work, I deal with complaints of injustice and breaches of contracts. I don’t believe my complainant is lying, but I am not sufficiently naive to believe I am hearing the whole truth.

I don’t doubt that there are philanthropists in the world, but I also believe that self-serving capitalists will try to mask their self-interest by touting that they are “creating jobs”, or “helping the people“, or “building the economy”, etc. Those might be incidental side effects of their behaviour, but I understand that capitalism is about self-interest and that workers (creating jobs) are considered expenses to be reduced where possible.

I don’t consider myself to be above these characteristics. I have a small house in Troncones, creating some jobs, helping some people, and contributing to the economy. I don’t expect anyone to applaud me for pursuing that self-interest. (Self-disclosure: I am a bad capitalist, making a marginal profit at best in a good year. And there are not many good years.) I try to understand my community. I try to maintain good relationships. I don’t expect the police to help me out.

I have to wonder what self-interest the owners and operators of the Mexico City News are pursuing in publishing this self-serving piece, without examination or investigation. I’m quite sure that if I submitted that many words about the favourable experiences in the Mexican aspect of my modest life my efforts would immediately end up in the dust bin.

Reading this piece reminds me of an expression I heard in Mexico regarding the corporate capitalist media.

“When I look at the news I ask “Why am I being told this lie and why am I being told it today?”

--
www.dreaminmexico.com

Everyone is Their Own Hero

by Quadra Paul @, Friday, July 24, 2020, 19:04 (126 days ago) @ Ernie Gorrie

:megusta: