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Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by Pam in NJ ⌂ @, Morristown, NJ, Friday, August 28, 2020, 20:03 (55 days ago)

Is this move to Yellow warranted or is it too soon? I am watching from afar and still living in a bit of a "bubble" here in NJ. we are very slow at reopening.

Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by midalake @, Friday, August 28, 2020, 20:22 (55 days ago) @ Pam in NJ

Is this move to Yellow warranted or is it too soon? I am watching from afar and still living in a bit of a "bubble" here in NJ. we are very slow at reopening.

My two pesos. NEITHER Mexico or the USA is on top of ANYTHING. With the USA being DEAD LAST!

D

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Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by Pam in NJ ⌂ @, Morristown, NJ, Friday, August 28, 2020, 20:26 (55 days ago) @ midalake

I hear ya!

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by Mexalberta @, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 11:50 (54 days ago) @ midalake

I agree. Mexico is not doing a job at all.
Testing 3 per 100,000 is very sad. the numbers don't compute when you need a test to prove you have recovered.

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Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by Pam in NJ ⌂ @, Morristown, NJ, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 15:12 (54 days ago) @ Mexalberta

I've read that Mexico has lowered the amount of testing....so of course numbers are going down because testing is going down...not because the virus has gone away. smh.

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 18:55 (54 days ago) @ Pam in NJ

I've read that Mexico has lowered the amount of testing....so of course numbers are going down because testing is going down...not because the virus has gone away. smh.

Mexico never followed the U.S. or Canadian model. It never wasted resources doing random testing, relying instead on other indicators to detect outbreaks, then using testing to confirm and tracing to contain.

Different methodology, very good results so far for us in Mexico. Mexico is doing better than Florida. Nuff said.

I think the amount of Republicans is a bigger factor than anything else. Not many Republicans in Mexico, thank goodness. ;-)

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Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by hromero ⌂ @, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 19:57 (54 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Comparing Mexico's response to Florida's is a low bar to set. Almost like me gloating about winning at volleyball against a 2 year old. Not something I would gloat about.

Canada's death per million= 227
Mexico's death per million= 515

And that is an optimistic comparison considering that even the mexican government admits that actual deaths may be as much as three times higher. Official website post from late July

A nation with the tenth largest population has the the third highest number of deaths and likely would be in second place ahead of the U.S. if there were accurate numbers.

Lo siento amigo, pero yo no estoy comprando que tu estas vendiendo. ;-)

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 20:40 (54 days ago) @ hromero

Comparing Mexico's response to Florida's is a low bar to set. Almost like me gloating about winning at volleyball against a 2 year old. Not something I would gloat about.

Canada's death per million= 227
Mexico's death per million= 515

And that is an optimistic comparison considering that even the mexican government admits that actual deaths may be as much as three times higher. Official website post from late July

A nation with the tenth largest population has the the third highest number of deaths and likely would be in second place ahead of the U.S. if there were accurate numbers.

Lo siento amigo, pero yo no estoy comprando que tu estas vendiendo. ;-)

As Dr. López-Gatell has explained ad nauseum (and I have repeated here), considering Mexico's level of poverty, lack of access to modern or adequate medical care, and the poor health of the majority of its inhabitants mostly due to consuming Coca-Cola instead of water for decades, we are doing well. Canada has a healthier percentage of its population and universal medical coverage including modern medical facilities. A very poor comparison, IMHO, much worse and less relevant than my comparison with Florida. Dr. López-Gatell made his determinations as to a course of action based on Mexico's unique set of circumstances and he has done an excellent job as have the people of Mexico considering the conditions we live in and the resources we have access to. So again, with all due respect, por la enésima vez, I find your criticisms unfounded and that you're using the wrong measuring stick.

The entire country of Mexico is doing better than the state of Florida, and THAT is relevant and it says all we should need to know about how things are going in Mexico. Mexico never got close to the worst-case scenario we originally feared was inevitable.

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by Susan G @, Zihua/La Ropa, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 21:24 (53 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Rob, I have been following your comments and those of Humberto during this pandemic and have found both being valid, but... this ain't over yet. Even tho the Mexican state of Guerrero is moving to the yellow virus stage, my husband and I are still following the prior strict protocols: Masks at times when leaving home or when people enter to make repairs and clean. We also still social distance and hope that others will do the same for now.

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Guerrero moves to YELLOW

by hromero ⌂ @, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 21:33 (53 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

As Dr. López-Gatell has explained ad nauseum (and I have repeated here), considering Mexico's level of poverty, lack of access to modern or adequate medical care, and the poor health of the majority of its inhabitants..

As I have posted before, there are countries with similar resources to Mexico who have done much better (Uruguay and Rwanda for example). It was only your comparison to Canada and the U.S. and the insinuation that testing was a "waste of resources" that prompted my statistical comparison to Canada. You may say that I am using the wrong measuring stick but it seems to me that your replies are simply aimed at reducing the measuring stick to a point that any country can be considered to have been successful. If we don't hold our government accountable then they will continue to deliver poor services (which you yourself acknowledge). A point in fact, at one point Dr. Lopez-Gatell indicated that 60,000 deaths would be catastrophic for Mexico.Dr. Lopez Gatell talking about ranges of death in June Now that Mexico has exceeded that level of deaths we are expected to accept that it isn't all that catastrophic and in fact is a successful response? I care too much about this country and the people in it that I love to accept that. Respectfully, I find your defense of the Mexican government's response to Covid-19 unfounded and unbelievable. Somewhat surprising to me considering all that you do to hold our local government accountable (for which I am most appreciative).

I want people to come here and enjoy our beautiful paradise in no small part because I have staked my financial well-being on them doing so. I won't be a part of mis-informing those people about the situation here which is why I am passionate about this. I think people can come here and enjoy themselves safely but they shouldn't come here with the impression that the virus is contained or that they shouldn't take precautions (I am not saying that you are). I am cautiously optimistic that enough people are taking precautions here in Zihuatanejo to control the virus but the government's decisions to reduce testing despite rising cases, about a month ago, is baffling to me and not helpful IMHO.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

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by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 02:55 (53 days ago) @ hromero

I think that your view of the situation is much closer to the truth than what I have seen reported here too often. When a country like India, with it's huge population, much higher than Mexico and with tons of poverty as well has less deaths than Mexico, you can tell that it is far from going well in Mexico as much as some would like to twist things around. I feel for people like yourself that have a business that cater mostly to tourists but you sure impress me when I see you are not willing to gamble on their health. I can only hope the situation in your region gets better soon. Sadly the only way this can happen is by keeping the region shut down and limiting travel as much as possible. There is no miracle way until a vaccine is found. Stay safe!

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 11:13 (53 days ago) @ hromero

As Dr. López-Gatell has explained ad nauseum (and I have repeated here), considering Mexico's level of poverty, lack of access to modern or adequate medical care, and the poor health of the majority of its inhabitants..


As I have posted before, there are countries with similar resources to Mexico who have done much better (Uruguay and Rwanda for example). It was only your comparison to Canada and the U.S. and the insinuation that testing was a "waste of resources" that prompted my statistical comparison to Canada. You may say that I am using the wrong measuring stick but it seems to me that your replies are simply aimed at reducing the measuring stick to a point that any country can be considered to have been successful. If we don't hold our government accountable then they will continue to deliver poor services (which you yourself acknowledge). A point in fact, at one point Dr. Lopez-Gatell indicated that 60,000 deaths would be catastrophic for Mexico.Dr. Lopez Gatell talking about ranges of death in June Now that Mexico has exceeded that level of deaths we are expected to accept that it isn't all that catastrophic and in fact is a successful response? I care too much about this country and the people in it that I love to accept that. Respectfully, I find your defense of the Mexican government's response to Covid-19 unfounded and unbelievable. Somewhat surprising to me considering all that you do to hold our local government accountable (for which I am most appreciative).

I want people to come here and enjoy our beautiful paradise in no small part because I have staked my financial well-being on them doing so. I won't be a part of mis-informing those people about the situation here which is why I am passionate about this. I think people can come here and enjoy themselves safely but they shouldn't come here with the impression that the virus is contained or that they shouldn't take precautions (I am not saying that you are). I am cautiously optimistic that enough people are taking precautions here in Zihuatanejo to control the virus but the government's decisions to reduce testing despite rising cases, about a month ago, is baffling to me and not helpful IMHO.

Again, Rwanda and Uruguay have almost nothing in common with Mexico. Wrong measuring stick, though I see you don't like that criticism.

I'm not going to dismiss the good doctor's talents for not being able to accurately predict human behavior in the future. I don't believe anyone else has accurately done so either. It's one hing to criticize political policy based on ideology, another to criticize health policy based on science.

You keep criticizing Dr. López-Gatell without offering any alternative strategy other than more testing. I think you misinterpreted the part about more testing being a "waste of resources". Let me qualify that. It's a waste of precious limited resources that Mexico doesn't have to spare. But let's pretend Mexico did massive random testing and found another 100,000 who are positive but who need no medical attention. If the rate of transfer is already dropping below 1, what would you have the federal government do differently than it's already doing? Let's remember, from the start part of the main strategy has been to reduce contact between people, something that some state and local governments have not respected and which resulted in increased exposures. Not sure how much you follow what's happening in the various states, but Dr. López-Gatell has no responsibility for conditions beyond his control.

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by hromero ⌂ @, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 11:26 (53 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Really? I haven't offered any alternatives? You should read your own response and see if that is true. Science based responses abound in examples around the world and the Mexican government has had ample time to adapt their responses based on new information but have chosen not to.

I have said my piece for now and will let it alone for the time being.

Te mando buenos deseos para ti y tus queridos.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 12:15 (53 days ago) @ hromero

Really? I haven't offered any alternatives? You should read your own response and see if that is true. Science based responses abound in examples around the world and the Mexican government has had ample time to adapt their responses based on new information but have chosen not to.

I have said my piece for now and will let it alone for the time being.

Te mando buenos deseos para ti y tus queridos.

No, I don't recall any suggestions of yours besides MORE TESTING, so if you've made them please refresh my memory and excuse my aging overworked gray mass. You keep wanting Mexico to copy other countries that have extremely different circumstances, and you appear not to want to recognize the limitations those differences impose upon Mexico's federal government. So yes, I'd be very interested in VIABLE alternatives, because I think since February 2nd Mexico's response by the federal government has been excellent considering our unique circumstances and limitations.

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by Curbarn, summer b.c. winter zihua, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 22:43 (45 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

meh, more testing=less dead. pay now or pay later.

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by jaui @, Zihuatanejo, Sunday, September 06, 2020, 23:49 (45 days ago) @ Curbarn

meh, more testing=less dead. pay now or pay later.

:megusta:

9/07/2020

@Curbarn

Sometimes detecting a health problem EARLY ON makes treating it easier, versus waiting for it to become "full-blown" or near there.
Generally speaking, the sooner Tx is initiated, the patient stands a better chance in recovering from the illness or disease.

A few years back, I had a virus of a different nature that manifests itself in the skin.
The doctor told me that if I would have showed up when I first detected it which was around 4 days or so PRIOR to my Doctor visit, and started the Tx/Rx then, the normal Tx (Aciclovir) for it is much more effective.
At any rate, I did end up with a complete recovery.

This leads to my question for the "experts" on the panel:
If a Covid-19 patient is detected by testing, even when they may be asymptomatic, and treatment is started then, is that of any benefit to obtain favorable Treatment results? (versus waiting until they are obviously ill & testing then to confirm the Dx).

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by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Monday, September 07, 2020, 00:51 (45 days ago) @ jaui


This leads to my question for the "experts" on the panel:
If a Covid-19 patient is detected by testing, even when they may be asymptomatic, and treatment is started then, is that of any benefit to obtain favorable Treatment results? (versus waiting until they are obviously ill & testing then to confirm the Dx).

There is no specific treatment. All treatment is supportive, based on symptoms. A symptomatic patients would not be treated, but should be isolated and have their contacts tested.

Remdisivir and convalescent serum seem to shorten the course of illness in the sickest folks. It is not clear at this point that they decrease mortality.

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, September 07, 2020, 09:06 (45 days ago) @ Curbarn

meh, more testing=less dead. pay now or pay later.

If that were true then the USA's death toll would be thousands less.

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by midalake @, Monday, September 07, 2020, 09:26 (45 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

meh, more testing=less dead. pay now or pay later.


If that were true then the USA's death toll would be thousands less.


Testing is ONE vital link. Trying to put masks on mouth breathing Republicans and low life's is another.

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by jaui @, Zihuatanejo, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 18:56 (53 days ago) @ hromero

8-30-2020

Excerpt from post by hromero--->

......Science based responses abound in examples around the world and the Mexican government has had ample time to adapt their responses based on new information but have chosen not to.

@hromero

My interpretation for at least one reason why this issue has opinions that vary from one extreme to another, is one basic fundamental:

a Human body.

Possibly, the lack of understanding of exactly how it functions from a physiological / medical / scientific perspective gets in the way, and leads to these debates.
We're talking about the effect that a particular illness, which is a virus in this case, has on a human body.
No matter what country one is from or in, that is a constant, that being the effect of the illness on a human body.

Although geography, climate, customs and traditions, physical appearances do vary from one extreme to another in country "a" to country "Z", bottom line is we're talking about the effect an illness has on one thing people in countries a - Z have in common:
our bodies.
So unless someone in one country has 3 lungs, or other physiological, biological or anatomical peculiarity, I see no reason that sound medical evidence about the illness provided by qualified health care professionals from country "A" should be declared useless and ingnored in country "b, c, d, e, f ----Z"

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by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 21:01 (52 days ago) @ jaui

The error in your assumption is that all “human bodies” are the same. They aren’t. Based on these differences in sex, age, physiognomy, co-existing illnesses the individual effects will be vastly different.

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by jaui @, Zihuatanejo, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 21:11 (52 days ago) @ Timmac
edited by jaui, Sunday, August 30, 2020, 21:53

The error in your assumption is that all “human bodies” are the same. They aren’t. Based on these differences in sex, age, physiognomy, co-existing illnesses the individual effects will be vastly different.


8/30/2020

@Timmac

It was a generalized statement.........
The "sameness" meaning that all human beings have 1 heart, 2 kidneys, 2 lungs, 1 liver, etc., etc.

From there, the other things you mentioned, obviously do come into play, leading to the virus having different effects on people based on those variables.
________________________________________________________

Fast forward, 1 year from now, let's say a "safe" vaccine becomes available for the Covid-19 virus.
Is it possible that, for example, it will work only for a human being in Russia, Italy, and Africa, but not for people in the USA, México, Brazil, etc?

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by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Monday, August 31, 2020, 07:20 (52 days ago) @ jaui

Fast forward, 1 year from now, let's say a "safe" vaccine becomes available for the Covid-19 virus.
Is it possible that, for example, it will work only for a human being in Russia, Italy, and Africa, but not for people in the USA, México, Brazil, etc?

The short answer is yes, it could have varying efficacy, but it is unlikely to be due to location. Preexisting conditions can effect the efficacy of vaccines. Second, there are likely to be several vaccines, all of which are likely to have varying efficacies.

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by Lilyana @, Monday, August 31, 2020, 17:56 (52 days ago) @ Timmac

Well said Timmac.

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by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, August 29, 2020, 17:43 (54 days ago) @ Mexalberta

I agree. Mexico is not doing a job at all.
Testing 3 per 100,000 is very sad. the numbers don't compute when you need a test to prove you have recovered.

Yes, Mexico IS “doing its job”. They just aren’t buying what you’re trying to sell.