Avatar

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 09:48 (37 days ago)

To the Artists, Community and Friends of Zihuatanejo:
We are outraged by the detention and imprisonment of our friends Ilse Elizabeth Ramirez Reyes (Lic. Admon. Graduated from ITCGG) and Luis Ángel Quintana Saucedo (musician and member of the musical group Xpresion Inmune).
An operation (raid) was conducted by the military and police on Feb 12th of this year on Avenida Paseo de la Boquita (the Canal Road in Zihua) of a building where they had received reports that a criminal element was living. Our friends were renting an apartment in the same building where the raid occurred and they were put into custody along with the criminal elements there. It is important to understand our friends were renting an apartment on a different floor in the same building. They were not involved with, or living with the criminals. It is a VERY unfortunate case of being in the wrong place and of the police and military arbitrarily arresting everyone in the building.
While those of you who do not understand Mexican law or the justice system here may think this will all be sorted out, I assure you, it is a dangerous situation for these two innocent bystanders. They have already been held nearly a week with no evidence against them. They are currently being held in Acapulco. They are allowed no contact with friends or family. Their rights are being violated as they are being held with no evidence of their connection to the criminal organization that was being targeted.
We are demanding that the Government clarify their case against them, and due to a total lack of evidence, release them immediately. We also ask that the media, who are falsely reporting their names as being involved, print a retraction and apology for damages to their reputations. These are honest and hardworking people.
So we are asking that everyone join forces in support of the release of Luis and Ilse.
WE WANT THEM FREED!

--
www.williammertz.photography

Avatar

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 09:53 (37 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

:megusta:

--
!!!Stuff Yourself, Not A Fish!!!
Please only kill the fish that you are going to eat.

Avatar

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by AngelaD @, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 09:53 (37 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

This is outrageous! I hope and pray for their return to their home and lives that give so much joy to the people in Zihuatanejo. I am so shocked at this.

Avatar

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by dhunsber @, ¡Dondequiera que voy, estoy aquí!, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 10:09 (37 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

A travesty for certain! I'd read about the raid a couple of days ago.

While we on this board are likely to be overwhelmingly sympathetic to these innocents' plight, there's little that those of us who are foreigners can do. Helping to raise funds for their defense is one thing we can do, so please let us know if that becomes necessary.

I'm confident that you -and I hope many other ciudadanos mexicanos- are pulling out all the stops to free these two.

Please provide regular updates.

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by Elena S @, Tacoma WA USA, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 11:53 (37 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

We visit every year and know these are good people. Los autoridades no debe hacer mal como los autoridades actual de Estados Unidos. The authorities should not behave as badly as those in the current administration in the US.

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by Mexalberta @, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 12:12 (37 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Extremely upsetting and alarming. We all know there is no logic in the Mexican Justice system. It is getting worse in Guerrero and more and more people will cross it off the destination list.
All we can do is hope and pray.

Avatar

Time to clear some things up...

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:26 (36 days ago) @ Mexalberta

First, I am not directly involved in this situation. However, I know and love these people and want to see justice served. I will do everything I can to help, even if it is just giving voice to the cause.

Second, and this board is not the only place I have heard this, if you want to use this as an excuse to not visit Zihuatanejo anymore than you are allowing us to fail. Don't for one minute think this a NEW problem here. Violence and injustice are a part of Mexico and especially the state of Guerrero. It always has been. I have 19 years here, it is always the same. What has changed is social media. It gives a voice to just and unjust alike. It gives a platform for causes and reasons and ways to seek change. Violence here is up and down, always has been. You, the readers, the visitors and tourists become aware only when it touches you in some way. It is not any different than 19 years ago and the years I have lived here.

Don't take what is happening as an excuse to not come. In the same regard, don't start saying "Well there is violence everywhere". As much as this is a paradise for you, it is just a community with all the issues communities have. Anywhere you go has its issues, its "secrets" and its defenders as well as detractors. If you feel you can vacation somewhere safer than here, then I dare say you simply haven't looked hard enough and deep enough at that place.

So enough of my rant. Let's focus on what the real issue is, which is trying to help these unfortunate kids any way we can.

--
www.williammertz.photography

Avatar

Time to clear some things up...

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:38 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

First, I am not directly involved in this situation. However, I know and love these people and want to see justice served. I will do everything I can to help, even if it is just giving voice to the cause.

Second, and this board is not the only place I have heard this, if you want to use this as an excuse to not visit Zihuatanejo anymore than you are allowing us to fail. Don't for one minute think this a NEW problem here. Violence and injustice are a part of Mexico and especially the state of Guerrero. It always has been. I have 19 years here, it is always the same. What has changed is social media. It gives a voice to just and unjust alike. It gives a platform for causes and reasons and ways to seek change. Violence here is up and down, always has been. You, the readers, the visitors and tourists become aware only when it touches you in some way. It is not any different than 19 years ago and the years I have lived here.

Don't take what is happening as an excuse to not come. In the same regard, don't start saying "Well there is violence everywhere". As much as this is a paradise for you, it is just a community with all the issues communities have. Anywhere you go has its issues, its "secrets" and its defenders as well as detractors. If you feel you can vacation somewhere safer than here, then I dare say you simply haven't looked hard enough and deep enough at that place.

So enough of my rant. Let's focus on what the real issue is, which is trying to help these unfortunate kids any way we can.

Not sure if you're aware the owner of the house, from a well known local family, was also detained and taken to Acapulco where he gave his statement and was released. His house was also returned to him instead of being confiscated as the police are wont to do in such cases. A friend of ours is using this recent example to try to get their home returned to them after criminals were arrested in it while renting in Ixtapa a couple of years ago, but my friend is apparently being extorted by the police and Ministeriales. Typical operating procedure here in Guerrero.

Time to clear some things up...

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:38 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

:megusta:

William is absolutely right...I was working here in the 80's and 90's and the same was going on but social media is indeed a game changer used properly...I sure hope we can manage to get the authorities to see they have done wrong and they get freed...

Time to clear some things up...

by cantinero46, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:43 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Hunter,one day I mistook you for Z Rob,think it was 2005,in the parking lot of la comer,don't post this much,but:megusta:

Time to clear some things up...

by Mexalberta @, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:31 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

We have been frequent visitors to Mexico for more than 20 years. I was not infering we would not visit.
Eventually we will all be too old and new Mexico lovers may be inclined not to visit and tourism in this part of Mexico would die .
Look at Acapulco!

Avatar

Time to clear some things up...

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:42 (36 days ago) @ Mexalberta

We have been frequent visitors to Mexico for more than 20 years. I was not infering we would not visit.
Eventually we will all be too old and new Mexico lovers may be inclined not to visit and tourism in this part of Mexico would die .
Look at Acapulco!

Exactly! And we're repeating so many of Acapulco's errors because it profits a similar ilk. Its a tried and true working model.

Time to clear some things up...

by lorenzo @, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 19:21 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Will,

Thank you for your voice of reason.

A VERY important message about the band Expresion Inmune

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:39 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

:megusta:

Avatar

HERE is a real way to help!

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 14:53 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

These kids, and that's what they are, just kids, need to raise money for a legal defense. Someone we all know and love has stepped forward to facilitate that for them.

Donations can be made via PayPal www.paypal.com using ladymzih@hotmail.com as the account.

The minimum that needs to be raised is 10,000 pesos. That is only 500 US dollars. But I fear that will be just the beginning and more fees will accrue. I wouldn't be putting myself out there if I did not feel CONFIDENT in their innocence. I would also state very clearly that it scares the hell out of me what they are being subjected to while being held for something they did not do. The justice system here isn't much for saying Sorry, we got the wrong guys...

So please if you can, step up and help a little. Thoughts and prayers are wonderful but lawyers don't accept them for payments.

--
www.williammertz.photography

HERE is a real way to help!

by GW, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 15:28 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Paypal won't let me send unless I have a first and last name for the hotmail account

Avatar

HERE is a real way to help!

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:02 (36 days ago) @ GW

Carol Marchant is the owner of the account/e-mail address.

--
[image]
http://www.casa-amarilla-zihua.com

Avatar

HERE is a real way to help!

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:10 (36 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

HERE is a real way to help!

by GW, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:18 (36 days ago) @ frostbite

Ditto

HERE is a real way to help!

by allen @, Pacific Northwest, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 16:52 (36 days ago) @ GW

ditto

HERE is a real way to help!

by ZihuaRx, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 21:54 (36 days ago) @ allen

Saw and heard these kids play in Troncones. So much fun. They were even willing to chat with this old guy after the show. As a father of four I know kids and these are good kids. Thanks for letting us in on this Will and I'm happy to say Ditto.

HERE is a real way to help!

by MN Nice @, MN, Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 08:57 (32 days ago) @ ZihuaRx

I clicked the link but it took me to a let's says random/paypal link?

HERE is a real way to help!

by ZihuaRx, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 11:05 (31 days ago) @ MN Nice

If it's to ladymzih@hotmail.com and/or Carol Marchant it's all good.

Avatar

UPDATE Feb.22, 2017

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 11:01 (31 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

The update is that things have gone from bad to worse. I can not elaborate much at the request of those involved. I will say that it appears these two kids will be used as an example and the situation is dire. Is there a way for you to help? I am not sure. There will be continuing legal expenses and travel for their families. I say keep signing the petition... That is about all I have, sorry.

--
www.williammertz.photography

UPDATE Feb.22, 2017

by suztamasopo @, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 13:31 (30 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

This whole thing breaks my heart. This injustice will severely affect their entire lives.

UPDATE Feb.22, 2017

by locahermanas @, Minnesota, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 09:28 (30 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Is there any possibility for an organized march outside of the facility they are incarcerated in - or in front of the municipal court they are being held at? It seems like the marches ARE getting press in the US regarding trumponomics.

Avatar

Marching

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 09:35 (30 days ago) @ locahermanas

Is there any possibility for an organized march outside of the facility they are incarcerated in - or in front of the municipal court they are being held at? It seems like the marches ARE getting press in the US regarding trumponomics.

They are being held in Acapulco where they don't play nice.

Marching

by Mexalberta @, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 10:19 (30 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Also the political treadmill is at a much steeper incline in Mexico.

Avatar

Marching

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 11:23 (30 days ago) @ Mexalberta

Also the political treadmill is at a much steeper incline in Mexico.

I don't believe politics has anything to do with injustice unless it gives you clout with the authorities as it did in the case of the owner of the house where the arrests took place who is closely related to Zihuatanejo's mayor. So he walks free while two of his renters languish in jail under false charges of murder just because they lived there.

Marching

by Mexalberta @, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 12:49 (29 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Just meant it is more difficult to get positive exposure to unjust situations

Avatar

Marching

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 13:01 (29 days ago) @ Mexalberta

Just meant it is more difficult to get positive exposure to unjust situations

:megusta: Couldn't agree with you more. Especially here in the lawless, corrupt and violent state of Guerrero.

If someone were to make T-shirts?

by Elena S @, Tacoma WA USA, Monday, February 27, 2017, 20:39 (25 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

If someone were to make t-shirts with their pictures and "los queremos libres" for us tourists and locals to wear I would buy one. It would show support and earn money too. Or if some are already available please let us know where we can buy them.

Avatar

Why has there been no more updates?

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 09:08 (21 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Unfortunately, it is because the situation is largely unchanged.Ilse and Luis are still being held in Acapulco. They went through an initial hearing where all of the evidence of their innocence was presented to a judge. He still found just cause for their detention. If any good news came of it, there was initially a murder charge tacked onto the weapons charges they are being held on, that was dropped.

Just to be clear, they are being held with all of the people that were arrested in the raid. All are being charged with the same crimes.

At this point, it is very possible they will be held several more months before they can go to trial. Evidence is still being presented regarding their innocence as well as a list of the violations of their rights that have been committed.

Costs continue to mount for their defense as well as costs incurred by their families traveling to and from Acapulco to keep tabs on the events and such.

What can we do? There are ongoing marches to proclaim their innocence. As extranjeros we are not or should not participate in these because it is in violation of our VISA agreement. We can sign the petition for their release. We can continue to donate to their funds. We can make others aware of their plight. I and others feel the more light that is shone upon this, the more the Gov't will need to take action to rectify the situation.

--
www.williammertz.photography

Why has there been no more updates?

by OlsenMN, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 11:14 (21 days ago) @ Hunter-MX


What can we do? There are ongoing marches to proclaim their innocence. As extranjeros we are not or should not participate in these because it is in violation of our VISA agreement. We can sign the petition for their release. We can continue to donate to their funds.

Thank you for clarifying the situation re:the marches. I have heard extranjeros say they are going to march and have worried that this is, in fact, very political.

Avatar

Why has there been no more updates?

by Leemr @, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 11:16 (21 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

I have a question on the raid/arrests: Ilse and Luis live on the 3rd floor and were arrested.......the bad guys live on the 2nd floor and were arrested......
why weren't the people who rent the two ground floor businesses arrested, a motorcycle repair shop and an upholstery repair? Are they innocent because it was Sunday and they were closed/not there working? I don't expect anyone can answer this. Just saying!

Avatar

Foreigners CAN safely protest!

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 12:05 (21 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Unfortunately, it is because the situation is largely unchanged.Ilse and Luis are still being held in Acapulco. They went through an initial hearing where all of the evidence of their innocence was presented to a judge. He still found just cause for their detention. If any good news came of it, there was initially a murder charge tacked onto the weapons charges they are being held on, that was dropped.

Just to be clear, they are being held with all of the people that were arrested in the raid. All are being charged with the same crimes.

At this point, it is very possible they will be held several more months before they can go to trial. Evidence is still being presented regarding their innocence as well as a list of the violations of their rights that have been committed.

Costs continue to mount for their defense as well as costs incurred by their families traveling to and from Acapulco to keep tabs on the events and such.

What can we do? There are ongoing marches to proclaim their innocence. As extranjeros we are not or should not participate in these because it is in violation of our VISA agreement. We can sign the petition for their release. We can continue to donate to their funds. We can make others aware of their plight. I and others feel the more light that is shone upon this, the more the Gov't will need to take action to rectify the situation.

You are incorrect that foreigners cannot protest against the illegal and arbitrary detention of this well known musician and his girlfriend. It has nothing to do with politics or Art. 33 of the Constitución. I've already covered this topic so I won't repeat myself. The only thing keeping any foreigner from protesting is the excuses they come up with.

Foreigners CAN safely protest!

by OlsenMN, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 12:32 (21 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Rob, when the only person arrested who is released is the owner of the building (the nephew of the mayor) whose testimony as the owner of the building that Luis and Ilse were not involved, which would mean he knew what was going on in the other apt making him complicit, then yeah, this is political.

Quoting you "We need media attention to shame the corrupt state authorities looking to make money from the detention of this couple. They do this all the time. They find a chivo expiatorio to try to enhance their image (look, we caught NINE bad guys!!!), and even when they get found out, instead of backtracking and admitting their mistake and doing the right thing they hunker down, extort from the families, and collude to cover their asses." Yeah this is political. You have Mexican citizenship, most of us have just residency or are tourists and even your quote here would be a deportable offense.

Just ask Peter Buck (REM) in Todos Santos. http://www.bcsnoticias.mx/ademas-de-peter-buck-otros-extranjeros-se-fueron-de-todos-santos-tras-operativo-del-inm/

Avatar

Foreigners CAN safely protest!

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 13:24 (20 days ago) @ OlsenMN

Like I said, if you'd rather make excuses for NOT taking part in any public protest that is your prerogative. Art. 33 does NOT apply here. I marched and protested and spoke my mind openly here in Mexico long before I was a citizen. But then I've spent my entire life living by my principles.

Avatar

Damn, you caught me...

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 14:05 (20 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

That's me alright, always doing everything I can to avoid helping my friends and people in need. I should be ashamed, but thanks for shining a spotlight on my worthless self... :giveup:

--
www.williammertz.photography

Avatar

Damn, you misinterpreted me...

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 14:12 (20 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

WTF? Well, if that's how you want to interpret my comments, again, it's your prerogative. I was simply trying to clarify since it's a subject I'm quite familiar with.

Art. 33 is about foreigners meddling in Mexican elections. Not protesting non-electoral injustice. Since foreigners pay taxes and spend good money here they have a valid voice when it comes to protesting against non-electoral related injustice.

Damn, you misinterpreted me...

by HolyMole @, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 14:24 (20 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

WTF? Well, if that's how you want to interpret my comments, again, it's your prerogative. I was simply trying to clarify since it's a subject I'm quite familiar with.

Art. 33 is about foreigners meddling in Mexican elections. Not protesting non-electoral injustice. Since foreigners pay taxes and spend good money here they have a valid voice when it comes to protesting against non-electoral related injustice.

OlsenMN's post would suggest that Immigration authorities in Baja Sur didn't get the memo. I can think of lots of foreign tourists who wouldn't relish a perp walk to the border or have a GOFUNDME campaign to get them out of a Mexican hoosegow.

Avatar

Damn, you misinterpreted me...

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 17:34 (20 days ago) @ HolyMole

WTF? Well, if that's how you want to interpret my comments, again, it's your prerogative. I was simply trying to clarify since it's a subject I'm quite familiar with.

Art. 33 is about foreigners meddling in Mexican elections. Not protesting non-electoral injustice. Since foreigners pay taxes and spend good money here they have a valid voice when it comes to protesting against non-electoral related injustice.


OlsenMN's post would suggest that Immigration authorities in Baja Sur didn't get the memo. I can think of lots of foreign tourists who wouldn't relish a perp walk to the border or have a GOFUNDME campaign to get them out of a Mexican hoosegow.

It looks to me like some foreigners forgot their manners. Something I also keep reminding folks about. Being arrogant and loud-mouthed in Mexico only works for politicos, influyentes and narcos. It's not like north of the border where apparently that's accepted behavior. Even The Chump was polite as a choir boy on Sunday when he visited Mexico during his campaign.

Avatar

Damn, you misinterpreted me...

by Casa Sandbar ⌂ @, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 21:43 (20 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

It looks to me like some foreigners forgot their manners. Something I also keep reminding folks about. Being arrogant and loud-mouthed in Mexico only works for politicos, influyentes and narcos. It's not like north of the border where apparently that's accepted behavior. Even The Chump was polite as a choir boy on Sunday when he visited Mexico during his campaign.

You left out webmasters. Just sayin...

Avatar

It's not up to you to interpret the Mexican Constitution.

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 17:34 (20 days ago) @ ZihuaRob
edited by Hunter-MX, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 17:58

The individuals lacking the qualities determined by Article 30 shall be considered as foreigners. They shall be entitled to the human rights and guarantees conferred by this Constitution.

The President of the Republic shall have the power to expel from national territory any foreigner, according to the law and after a hearing. The law shall establish the administrative procedure for this purpose, as well as the place where the foreigner should be detained and the time for that.

Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.

This is the entire article. Seems pretty open for whatever anyone would consider "participation". There is no more to it, nothing more specific. So you interpret that how you choose and I will the way I choose. I have a hell of a lot to loose if I got unceremoniously booted from the country. You're a citizen. and really, I don't want to turn something so serious as this injustice into a silly pissing match with you, ok?

--
www.williammertz.photography

Avatar

Nothing to interpret

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 18:08 (20 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

The individuals lacking the qualities determined by Article 30 shall be considered as foreigners. They shall be entitled to the human rights and guarantees conferred by this Constitution.

The President of the Republic shall have the power to expel from national territory any foreigner, according to the law and after a hearing. The law shall establish the administrative procedure for this purpose, as well as the place where the foreigner should be detained and the time for that.

Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.

This is the entire article. Seems pretty open for whatever anyone would "participation". There is no more to it, nothing more specific. So you interpret that how you choose and I will the way I choose. I have a hell of a lot to loose if I got unceremoniously booted from the country. You're a citizen. and really, I don't want to turn something so serious as this injustice into a silly pissing match with you, ok?

Please Wil, don't patronize me. I've read the entire Constitución de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos in the language it was meant to be understood in and I understand it perfectly well in that language. You look silly insisting it says what it doesn't. I understand perfectly well not only WHAT it says and means but the CONTEXT in which it is was written and HOW it can legally be applied. Art. 33 is not ambiguous at all like the 2nd Amendment in the USA's Constitution of the United States of America. There is no choosing an interpretation. Either you speak Spanish and understand it or you don't.

Like I said originally, folks can conjure up whatever excuses they want for not participating in public demonstrations in support of injustice. If you don't know the difference between politics and justice then no, don't participate. No sweat off my back. But please don't tell me Art. 33 means something it doesn't.

Avatar

Citizenship

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa/Silver Strand Beach, California, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 18:15 (20 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Will, obviously you have not become a citizen of Mexico. We are respectfully asking why not? From what we have read, there is no longer an issue of being citizens of both the US and Mexico, and after two years of Permanent Residency, it's a test and a little time. Please explain your decision so we can make an educated choice.

Be friends, you two. Yes, disagreement is fine, but keep it friendly, please.

Avatar

Citizenship

by Hunter-MX ⌂ @, Troncones, Gro. Mexico, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 21:48 (20 days ago) @ Talley Ho

It's not exactly an environment here that is conducive for discussing my personal life. Those days are long ago...

--
www.williammertz.photography

Avatar

Citizenship

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa/Silver Strand Beach, California, Saturday, March 04, 2017, 21:52 (20 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

Thanks for your honest reply.

Haven't seen you at comercial this year, hoped to.

Please refer to our previous PM's.

Citizenship

by Charlybby, Wednesday, March 08, 2017, 16:24 (16 days ago) @ Hunter-MX

From what I read from you & Rob, you're both talking two different articles of constitution. One Art 30 & the other Art 33?! Maybe thats the confusion?