Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Saturday, April 15, 2017, 16:19 (184 days ago)

The lots in question run from Lot 1(where the road from the airport straitens out) to Lot # 64 on the Northern outskirts of La Barra de Potosi. Las Palmas is on Lot # 4, El Excondite is on Lot # 14. These lots were surveyed and sold by the MX government a number of years ago. Each lot is 100 meters by 100 meters and is bordered on the West by the beach and on the East by the beach access road. When the government surveyed and sold these lots they left a 10 meter public access lot every ten lots (i.e., between Lots 10 and 11 then between Lots 20 and 21 and so on.

Today I was told by a usually reliable source that the public access lots were "sold" off to private owners a few years ago. Of course, I will look up the public records to confirm this.

However, just wondering if anyone has further information on this subject.

If true, it means virtually the entire of Playa Blanca does not have public access and is, in effect, private beach.

Playa Blanca public access

by James, Monday, April 17, 2017, 08:57 (182 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

Does your concern extend to the north along Playa Larga as well? A group of us spent an afternoon at Marbella on Playa Largo (north of Las Palmas) and the beach had a lot of access points.

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Monday, April 17, 2017, 10:32 (182 days ago) @ James

I was reminded by a friend that the public access is every five lots (500 meters) not every ten lots.

I don't know about Playa Larga. I seem to recall there have been a lot of posts about the Ixtapa beach and how the hotels have simply ignored the law and platted lots and built on the public accesses and refused entry to the beach by locals.

I know the public access lots are on Playa Blanca as I have seen the actual government plat.

I think the same rule for public access is supposed to be in effect for all of the Mexico beaches but, as usual all over the world, justice goes to those with the deepest pockets.

I will eventually get to the place where the official public records are kept (Aduana?) and check it out for myself. Although the official public records are often ignored, they are I am assured, what an attorney can defend in a court of law.

Too bad there are no active title companies in the area.

Playa Blanca public access

by maggy, Tuesday, April 18, 2017, 12:52 (181 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

aduana = customs

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Tuesday, April 18, 2017, 14:29 (181 days ago) @ maggy

Oops, wrong word. Anyway the official who keeps the official records.

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Playa Blanca public access

by Laura ⌂ @, Sunday, April 30, 2017, 16:19 (169 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

Hola Gringo Viejo,

The information I have is that, yes, you are correct in that the original surveying and division of the lots accommodated a public access of ten meters width every 500 meters. I have actually seen the plano of that distribution. If you trace the properties starting from lot 1, you will in various cases find a ten meter wide lot at the 500 meters point where the public access should be. In other cases, you'll find lot sizes that interrupt what would have been a regular division of 100 meters (for example a 35 meter lot situated between others that divide up in 25 meter segments)

What I understand to have happened is that through the years, one by one (involving different officials and over a span of many years - not happening in one fell swoop) these accesses were in fact 're-surveyed' -if illegally. This was done by whatever officials who were at that time in a position to push through the paperwork (possibly at their own personal gain) resulting in a transition from public access (Federal Zone) to private property status. Then they were either subsumed by neighboring properties or simply purchased by a new owner who may or may not have been aware of that history.

This was of course not legal in the strict sense of the word...or in any sense of the word. However, it happened as such happenings have not been particularly unusual in Mexico. Probably someone paid a 'special fee' and was given the 'adjusted' paperwork to indicate a perfectly legal private property title, registered in the Federal Registry of Private Property. (which, by the way, is where you would go to research the history of each sale transaction of a given property. The agency charged with historical title investigation is the Notary Public in Mexico, as opposed to title companies in the north.)

One issue that further complicates this is that these properties have been sold and resold multiple times since the original shifty maneuver. The process of restoring these access points becomes obviously complicated and would affect people who were completely innocent and purchased a confirmed as properly registered private property in good faith. So who would take the loss? Who would be held responsible? Who would enforce this?

Seems like the only solution now would be for the government to purchase access points to rectify the problem caused by past corruption. Chances of this happening?

The issue of corrupt handling of public access has recently come up once again in Barra as the last and only remaining public access has just been 'sold' as private property and is being filled in with construction as we speak. This is presenting a problematic situation especially for the fishermen who now have no place where they can access the beach with a vehicle (to bring in or take out a boat, pick up cargo from the boats etc.

This is a problem. Even the fishing coops and local comisaria seem to be at a loss to prevent this ...though it will present a big problem for them and they are watching it happen. Why would they watch this with 'arms folded' as they say? This links to another long story I won't go into here but suffice to say, it's not because they are dense. They are working on finding a solution. There are reasons why this is complicated. The persons who can untangle this land grab, can perhaps untangle the problem of corruption in Mexico and will be much appreciated.

Saludos everyone!
Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Sunday, April 30, 2017, 17:03 (169 days ago) @ Laura

Laura, thank you for all that had work to explain the situation. And everything I have found indicates what you say is true. Welcome to Mexico! Nothing is certain here. Notaries should have been the check and balance but even they are corrupt.
I am not sure where the last access for the fishermen is located but I have no doubt it is happening.

And many vacant lots are used for access without the owner's permission. I am staying next to the lot at the Yellow Motel and numerous vehicles are using it for access albeit without the owner's permission, if you know what I mean.

And today the ATVs are zipping up and down the beach at high speed.

Over the years I have attempted to purchase property here but always ran into a snag of one kind or another. Rind now I am looking at a 30 m x 30 m lot which is being sold from a Plat' and, usual there are no survey pins. And the owner is selling the lots with beach access through another lot he claims to own but no easement of any kind is on that deed. So he sells the lot with public access and the new owner says, "NIMBY". I do intend to go to Petatlan soon to see what is on the public records.

I can now understand why a large number of Gringo's home up the coast were bulldozed because of title disputes.

The "responsible authorities" are once again irresponsible and justice goes the person with the highest public office or deepest pockets.

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Playa Blanca public access

by Laura ⌂ @, Sunday, April 30, 2017, 18:21 (169 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

yes, I am aware of that situation on the vacant lot you refer to. Definitely a better gate lock and fence are needed. And just to mention, that former access I referred to which is currently under construction, is located between two enramadas... Neto's and Dona Elva's

I whole-heartedly empathize and agree about the unfortunate mess regarding the presence with impunity of motorized vehicles on the beach. It's so sad that people take more pleasure in the noisy thrill of those loud and destructive vehicles than in enjoying the tranquilizing peace of the beach itself - or at least respect the fact that many who go to the beach wish to experience the peace and beauty of nature and for that reason save up all year to go for a precious short vacation (or all their lives to retire to).

This is something to take up with organizations in the area together with the comisaria...perhaps a coalition of the various organizations might convince the comisaria it is worth enforcing the regulations that already exist prohibiting this. This might include speaking directly with the comisario (with an interpreter if helpful) and the Colonos civil association of residents on the beach (English speaking) primarily and also the Tourist Board in Zihuatanejo. These are things you might do.

It could also include speaking with the fishing coops, the enramada restaurant association, the Whale research group, the women's coops, the schools, others? Of course this will take some energy and commitment of time.

Of course that age old issue enters in again.....power and corruption. At least a good portion of the violations will be traced to persons of authority in the municipality...who will end up being the links in the chain of authority locals would have to take the complaint to and will have to be working under on future matters of all kinds, often affecting their livelihood. You can imagine the awkwardness.

This doesn't mean it should not and could not be accomplished. If an individual reports and makes the request for enforcement, that's one thing. If three or four organized groups representing many, make the request (in the form of a demand) it would have more force. If it's handled in such a way that the violators can bow out without losing too much face and are highly motivated to compromise because of some negative thing if they don't and something they stand to gain of they do (like political feather in their cap instead of negative promotion that counts for them), that greases the wheels of compromise and change. I sincerely hope the parties that might move this, will take it on for everyone's benefit. I wish I had the energy to do it.

By the way, the location of the Federal Registry of Properties is a federal agency and is in Zihuatanejo not in Petatlan. It is located in the area next to la Cacahuate...around the corner and toward downtown from immigration on the same side of the street. I agree that buying a property might best not be based on a promise of access without legal easement.

Happy hunting! Though these things can be tricky and frustrating, careful and wise preparation will almost always prevent the kind of problems you refer to in the bulldozing of gringo properties. In the meantime, learning to navigate all this and enjoying the positives of this crazy Costa Grande that we love so much for good reason, keeps the balance in perspective and the happiness factor high.

Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Monday, May 01, 2017, 08:43 (168 days ago) @ Laura

Thanks for your input and concern.

BTW I clicked on the envelope to email you but it doesn't work.

C U in the 'hood!

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Playa Blanca public access

by Laura ⌂ @, Monday, May 01, 2017, 11:01 (168 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

Thanks for letting me know about the link not working. I've been away for a while. How do I fix that? Anyone? I tried a search for clues to no avail. I also need to put in the email ink and rotate my avatar (I"m tired a lot lately, but i wasn't actually lying on my side for that photo). Might as well do a little cobweb dusting on my presence here. Gracias!

Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

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Playa Blanca public access

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, May 01, 2017, 11:22 (168 days ago) @ Laura

Thanks for letting me know about the link not working. I've been away for a while. How do I fix that? Anyone? I tried a search for clues to no avail. I also need to put in the email ink and rotate my avatar (I"m tired a lot lately, but i wasn't actually lying on my side for that photo). Might as well do a little cobweb dusting on my presence here. Gracias!

Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

I turned on your e-mail so you can be contacted via the Message Board without revealing your address. You need to rotate your avatar in your computer and upload it again. I believe Windows Image Viewer has a rotate function you can use to fix it.

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Playa Blanca public access

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Monday, May 01, 2017, 11:46 (168 days ago) @ Laura

It's very nice to hear from you again!!!

Keith

--
Más Chile Más Mejor

Pay no attention
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Playa Blanca public access

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, May 01, 2017, 11:16 (168 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

Thanks for your input and concern.

BTW I clicked on the envelope to email you but it doesn't work.

C U in the 'hood!

What envelope? It's a house icon that represents the HOME page of her website. No, it wasn't working because Doña Laura forgot to put two diagonal slashes in the URL for her website. It's been fixed.

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Thank you Rob!!

by Laura ⌂ @, Monday, May 01, 2017, 12:05 (168 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I'm hoping I'm still kicking...a little bit...but the cogs are a bit rusty. Thanks for fixing those slashes. A estas alturas, there comes a time when you must rely on friends to pick on up on all the pieces that begin to drop without your noticing...lol! I'll see if I can get upright again for another round or two (si Dios quiere)

Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

Thank you Rob!!

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Monday, May 01, 2017, 12:28 (168 days ago) @ Laura

Go for it, Tigress!

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Monday, May 01, 2017, 12:25 (168 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

It looks something like an envelope to me; could be I don't crank up the ZoomText high enough! With light perception only in right eye and 20/800 (5/200) with 39 degrees centric loss I feel fortunate to be able to be on the internet at all--Thanks, VA!

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 09:30 (166 days ago) @ Laura

Walked and looked at the construction on the last vacant lot which has/is built on. It would appear that despite the Mexican Constitution prohibiting of foreign ownership of property within 25 miles of the beaches that inconvenient little truth was bypassed by the FidelComeros(sp) law.

Then the "responsible authorities" mandated public access lots along the beaches. But this was bypassed by corrupt authorties.

So now we see that although all beaches are "public beaches", they have become "private" since the public is denied access.

Lack of enforcement of the laws and lack of enforced zoning is leading to a hodge podge of development here in La Barra (and other places I'm sure)which in the long run does not bode well for the native population.

Sad! All of the above JMHO.

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Playa Blanca public access

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 09:58 (166 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo
edited by frostbite, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 10:05

Foreigners can own property within the exclusion zone via a trust held by a bank. We do.

--
[image]
http://www.casa-amarilla-zihua.com

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 15:48 (166 days ago) @ frostbite

I am not an attorney or even pretend to be an expert on the subject but I thought foreigner's properties were owned by the bank and put in a trust for 99(?) and is renewable.

Maybe someone else can help us out. Whose name is the deed in?

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Playa Blanca public access

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 16:53 (166 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

As far as I know, the deed is in our names. We pay the bank about US$500.00 per year to hold the trust. For specific information, you might contact attorney Agustin Galindo agustingalindo@prodigy.net.mx or phone 554-9915
Please share what you learned.

--
[image]
http://www.casa-amarilla-zihua.com

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Playa Blanca public access

by Laura ⌂ @, Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 21:24 (166 days ago) @ frostbite

Below is my understanding after living here for many years and being involved in the buying and selling of several properties. I am not a lawyer by the way. Please take this info for what it's worth in hopes it can help clarify the issue... and as part of further study to confirm this from other sources including a Notary's office.

By law, foreigners cannot directly own property in Mexico within a distance of 100 kilometers/50 kilometers from a coastal border/land border. Long ago (in the days before Salinas Gotari) there used to be a process whereby foreigners could obtain rights of use of a property via a lease of 99 years. This has not been in force for many years. Instead, legally supported possession of land in these zones by foreigners began to be handled via either a bank trust (as frostbite mentioned) or by forming a corporation in the case of a commercial enterprise.

The logic and legal basis is as follows: the property is technically held by the Mexican bank trust (called a fideocomiso in Spanish) or by a Mexican corporation. The bank or corporation is a Mexican entity so therefore the law restricting ownership by a foreigner is upheld. The beneficiary of the bank trust or member(s) of the corporation does not have to be a Mexican national. The full beneficiary of the trust or the member of the corporation can be a foreigner.

The fact that the bank holds the trust for the sake of the beneficiary is a fiduciary service and does not in any way give the bank ownership rights to the property. Rights to the property in every sense including use, sale, inheritance etc remain entirely in the hands of the beneficiary of the trust/member(s) of the corporation as specified in the trust or corporate bylaws . There is no time limit to these possession rights.

So..a foreigner can in this way securely possess full rights to the land without violating the law. It is a very solid legal status for land ownership in Mexico. (Note: the bank will be doing extra strict checking on the correct legal registration of the property in the federal Registry of properties for example. Any potential problems with the title would have an extra layer of checking happening. This is generally understood to be an additional protection against the remote possibility of a glitch in the uprightness of a notary...not that !that would happen here)

Saludos y hasta pronto!
Laura
Casa del Encanto B&B
Barra de Potosi

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Thursday, May 04, 2017, 08:51 (165 days ago) @ Laura

Yes, you are feeling better!

The sentence in your post is what concerns me, hence the need for a good attorney who can defend your position-and hopefully host as well as good.

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Playa Blanca public access

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, May 04, 2017, 09:12 (165 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

And then there is the Ejido can of worms!

Keith

--
Más Chile Más Mejor

Pay no attention
Just Another Tourist

Playa Blanca public access

by Gringo Viejo @, Kansas, Thursday, May 04, 2017, 10:12 (165 days ago) @ Labrat

I once addressed Ejido land with a well known and competent attorney. His comment, "Yes, it is possible but I don't recommend you even think about it. You can jump thru all the hoops and then find your property boycotted by the Ejidos. Forget it!"

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Stolen Ejido Lands of Ixtapa

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, May 04, 2017, 11:46 (165 days ago) @ Gringo Viejo

I once addressed Ejido land with a well known and competent attorney. His comment, "Yes, it is possible but I don't recommend you even think about it. You can jump thru all the hoops and then find your property boycotted by the Ejidos. Forget it!"

Unless you're the federal government. They promised to pay for ejido land expropriated to build Ixtapa over 45 years ago but still haven't kept their word. They just took the land. I keep urging my ejido friends to block the access roads to Ixtapa, but apparently I'm way more of a radical revolutionary than they are. Eventually they'll be left with no choice, but I think they've wasted too many years trying to settle this amicably.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE! :badass:

[image]

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Stolen Ejido Lands of Ixtapa

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, May 04, 2017, 13:14 (165 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I think that they are about 44 years too late for that.

JMO

Keith

--
Más Chile Más Mejor

Pay no attention
Just Another Tourist