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Zih and Be Seen

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 12:28 (98 days ago)

What a difference this week from the last. There are still plenty of tourists here, but they aren't as raucous or as careless as the tourists last week. Much fewer buses and fewer cars though many tourists continue arriving by car as well as by plane. While the government reports their cifras alegres (albeit with starkly differing numbers between dependencias), the shop and restaurant owners know the score. Some restaurant owners have been criticized for adding 10% tip to their bills, but I think it is fair and correct to do so as long as it clearly states so on the bill. I have no problem with it since way too many folks simply don't leave a decent tip, meaning waiters go home with little pay for their day's work.

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Zih and Be Seen

by Sandy feet @, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 12:33 (98 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Muy hermosa!

Zih and Be Seen

by JACK @, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 12:51 (98 days ago) @ Sandy feet

Although I don't agree with it, any service charges should be plainly visible on the MENU, not shown on the bill as a surprise at the end of the meal. That happened to me at La Ropa; not only they did add 11% to the bill, they didn't bother to show in the amount on the bill, it was simply added into the total. Never went back.

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Zih and Be Seen

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 13:33 (98 days ago) @ JACK

Although I don't agree with it, any service charges should be plainly visible on the MENU, not shown on the bill as a surprise at the end of the meal. That happened to me at La Ropa; not only they did add 11% to the bill, they didn't bother to show in the amount on the bill, it was simply added into the total. Never went back.

How the hell are they supposed to put the 10% charges on the menu?

It's a practice usually reserved for Semana Santa and Navidad. As a former restaurant worker I find it NO BIG DEAL to ask if the tip was included if I am unable to tell from the bill, though it's usually obvious if it's been included.

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by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 13:53 (98 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


How the hell are they supposed to put the 10% charges on the menu?

Easy enough: "A 10% gratuity will be added to the bill". I've seen that in the States, but generally only for larger groups. I don't like restaurants telling me how much to tip. I generally tip 20%, but if they add 10% that's all they get and I'll take my business elsewhere, in the future. On occasion, when paying with a credit card, I've been asked to leave cash by the waiter. Makes you wonder about their employer...

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Zih and Be Seen

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 14:49 (98 days ago) @ frostbite


How the hell are they supposed to put the 10% charges on the menu?


Easy enough: "A 10% gratuity will be added to the bill". I've seen that in the States, but generally only for larger groups. I don't like restaurants telling me how much to tip. I generally tip 20%, but if they add 10% that's all they get and I'll take my business elsewhere, in the future. On occasion, when paying with a credit card, I've been asked to leave cash by the waiter. Makes you wonder about their employer...

Which part of "It's a practice usually reserved for Semana Santa and Navidad" didn't you understand? Even if they print it on the menu you already stated you wouldn't tip more, so I fail to see the difference.

You can sure tell who the elitists and who the wage workers are. So if they add it you penalize them even when you know that most people are lousy tippers and waiters struggle to survive. Aren't you just a sweetheart. Are you aware most waiters only get paid via the tips they make?

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Zih and Be Seen

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 16:12 (98 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Which part of "It's a practice usually reserved for Semana Santa and Navidad" didn't you understand? Even if they print it on the menu you already stated you wouldn't tip more, so I fail to see the difference.

You can sure tell who the elitists and who the wage workers are. So if they add it you penalize them even when you know that most people are lousy tippers and waiters struggle to survive. Aren't you just a sweetheart. Are you aware most waiters only get paid via the tips they make?

I see you've come down with another attack of jerkitis. My comment had to do with a practice becoming more common in other areas of the world, not just small town Zihua. I thought I made it clear that I don't like ANY restaurants telling their customers how much to tip. I typically tip 20% which, I believe, is more that the standard. If restaurants in Zihua can get away with not paying wages, there needs to be a law stopping that practice. (My first boss in San Francisco, who had been a waiter in pre-war Czechoslovakia, told me that he had to pay the restaurant owner for the privilege of working there!) I was a busboy in room service at the Fairmont hotel, back then. The waiters put a dime in the pot for each order they served. That was divvied up between all the busboys. I got a 25 cent bonus, because I was the head busboy. So I'd like to think that I'm not an elitist, since I'm well acquainted with life "on the other side of the table". None of our regular places in Zihua play that added tip game and the waiters seem pleased to see us. In fact, at one of them, they treat us to a free drink after dinner.

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by cantinero46, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:24 (98 days ago) @ frostbite

Frostbite,I know why you didn't work in in the Tonga Room.:brilliant:

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Zih and Be Seen

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:57 (98 days ago) @ cantinero46

What went on in the Tonga Room?

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by cantinero46, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 18:11 (98 days ago) @ frostbite

Frostbite,tropical rains every 15 minutes,rum drinks a gumbo, and great appetizers,still a classic at the Fairmont.:badass:

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by Mike from SF @, Friday, April 21, 2017, 08:34 (97 days ago) @ cantinero46

Tonga room, Fond memories.

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Zih and Be Seen

by Mike from SF @, Friday, April 21, 2017, 08:39 (97 days ago) @ frostbite

That must have been back in the 1960's? Remember the Tonga room at the Fairmont back then.

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Zih and Be Seen

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 08:56 (97 days ago) @ Mike from SF

I worked at the Fairmont in 1962 and '63. The pay was $12.15 per day, medical coverage included, membership in the Waiters' and Dairy Lunchmens' Union obligatory. I never learned what a dairy lunchman was. About a decade later I was taking my girlfriend to a movie being shown nearby. We were early, so I suggested a drink at one of the bars at the Fairmont. She was wearing a long T shirt and slacks. The bartender informed us that women in pants were not allowed. So she dropped them right there and was instantly wearing a mini-dress; the fashion at the time. The poor bartender was speechless.

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by Mike from SF @, Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:54 (97 days ago) @ frostbite

Thanks for your reply Frostbite. Very nostalgic. We still stop by the Tonga room at the Fairmont once or twice a year.

Zih and Be Seen

by Vermont123, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 18:26 (98 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I don't like being told how much to tip either. Tips are reserved for good service. If you give poor service a tip to reward this does not make sense to me. However, that being said I have only once in my life left a zero tip for bad service. I typically tip 18 to 20% and do the same when I'm in Mexico. I don't know why people (tourists) who visit there think that they can get away with tipping poorly. It is so disrespectful in my mind.... but, then again, so are the employers who employ these people. Shame on them for the low salaries they pay their employees.

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HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 20:12 (98 days ago) @ Vermont123

I don't like being told how much to tip either. Tips are reserved for good service. If you give poor service a tip to reward this does not make sense to me. However, that being said I have only once in my life left a zero tip for bad service. I typically tip 18 to 20% and do the same when I'm in Mexico. I don't know why people (tourists) who visit there think that they can get away with tipping poorly. It is so disrespectful in my mind.... but, then again, so are the employers who employ these people. Shame on them for the low salaries they pay their employees.

There appear to be no current or former restaurant workers in this conversation, so get ready for an epiphany: RESTAURANTS DO NOT HAVE TO PAY MINIMUM WAGE! I worked way too many years in all kinds of restaurants in true elite class resort areas and the going wage was around a dollar an hour. Here in Mexico it is a lot less. THAT'S A FACT OF LIFE FOR RESTAURANT WORKERS.

NO ONE IS TELLING YOU HOW MUCH TO TIP OR THAT YOU MUST TIP AT ALL BY ADDING 10% TO THE BILL. You may have the tip removed from the bill by simply asking if you wish to leave no tip. It is not mandatory. It is added to help the wait staff and as a convenience for folks unaccustomed to tipping or for whom tipping is a cumbersome calculation.

Regardless of what the custom or law is where you come from, this ain't there. Here our waiters are unfortunately accustomed to too many tourists leaving no tip. It isn't the fault of the restaurants that wait staff live from tips, as especially Europeans like to allege. It is simply our way of operating restaurants. A different culture. There is nothing disrespectful about restaurants not paying waiters minimum wage or adding a 10% tip to a bill. We are fine with it. You don't have to like it or approve of it. I'm simply trying to make you aware of it so I don't have to read 50 more comments from folks indignant about standard practices in a local industry they don't work in.

For all of you current and former restaurant workers, this message is not for you.

HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by Mork, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:26 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

A tip is a tip, and should never be included in the bill except if a large party of folks are together.

If restaurants feel the need to raise the price of their food, they should adjust their menu accordingly.

Alas, this practice is growing worldwide.

Mork

HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by victorio, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:27 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob
edited by victorio, Friday, April 21, 2017, 02:23

Hola
We just left Z after 6 months. Will be back in October. We always "tip" about 20% whether it is a bar or a restaurant. Haven't run across a place that has added a 10% tip to the tab. I would be saving money if they would.

YHUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by ZihuaRx, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:34 (97 days ago) @ victorio

Yeah, or you would just add another 10%....not that big of a deal...

HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by OlsenMN, Friday, April 21, 2017, 11:27 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


Regardless of what the custom or law is where you come from, this ain't there. Here our waiters are unfortunately accustomed to too many tourists leaving no tip. It isn't the fault of the restaurants that wait staff live from tips, as especially Europeans like to allege. It is simply our way of operating restaurants. A different culture. There is nothing disrespectful about restaurants not paying waiters minimum wage or adding a 10% tip to a bill. We are fine with it.

This may not be THERE but here, those of us who live here are aware that Profeco makes this practice illegal.http://www.profeco.gob.mx/verificacion/quejas_denun.asp

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The Law

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, April 21, 2017, 12:00 (97 days ago) @ OlsenMN


Regardless of what the custom or law is where you come from, this ain't there. Here our waiters are unfortunately accustomed to too many tourists leaving no tip. It isn't the fault of the restaurants that wait staff live from tips, as especially Europeans like to allege. It is simply our way of operating restaurants. A different culture. There is nothing disrespectful about restaurants not paying waiters minimum wage or adding a 10% tip to a bill. We are fine with it.


This may not be THERE but here, those of us who live here are aware that Profeco makes this practice illegal.http://www.profeco.gob.mx/verificacion/quejas_denun.asp

You are mistaken. It is NOT illegal to add a 10% tip to the bill. I've read the law. As long as we all understand what the definition of a tip is then there's no problem. Anyone not wishing to pay the tip can have the bill adjusted to remove the added tip. No problem. No restaurant that adds a tip to the bill will insist that you must pay the tip.

Here's the relevant law everyone likes to cite. As long as the tip is marked as such on the bill or otherwise brought to the attention of the consumer there is no violation of the law.

LEY FEDERAL DE PROTECCIÓN AL CONSUMIDOR

ARTÍCULO 10.- Queda prohibido a cualquier proveedor de bienes o servicios llevar a cabo acciones que atenten contra la libertad o seguridad o integridad personales de los consumidores bajo pretexto de registro o averiguación. En el caso de que alguien sea sorprendido en la comisión flagrante de un delito, los proveedores, sus agentes o empleados se limitarán, bajo su responsabilidad, a poner sin demora al presunto infractor a disposición de la autoridad competente. La infracción de esta disposición se sancionará de acuerdo con lo previsto en esta ley, independientemente de la reparación del daño moral y la indemnización por los daños y perjuicios ocasionados en caso de no comprobarse el delito imputado.

Los proveedores no podrán aplicar métodos o prácticas comerciales coercitivas y desleales, ni cláusulas o condiciones abusivas o impuestas en el abastecimiento de productos o servicios. Asimismo, tampoco podrán prestar servicios adicionales a los originalmente contratados que no hubieren sido solicitados o aceptados expresamente, por escrito o por vía electrónica, por el consumidor.

http://www.profeco.gob.mx/juridico/pdf/LFPC_actuali_16ene2013.pdf

HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING RE: RESTAURANTS & TIPS

by Vermont123, Friday, April 21, 2017, 19:57 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Everyone has their own opinion!

Zih and Be Seen

by Canada1 @, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:00 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


How the hell are they supposed to put the 10% charges on the menu?


Easy enough: "A 10% gratuity will be added to the bill". I've seen that in the States, but generally only for larger groups. I don't like restaurants telling me how much to tip. I generally tip 20%, but if they add 10% that's all they get and I'll take my business elsewhere, in the future. On occasion, when paying with a credit card, I've been asked to leave cash by the waiter. Makes you wonder about their employer...


Which part of "It's a practice usually reserved for Semana Santa and Navidad" didn't you understand? Even if they print it on the menu you already stated you wouldn't tip more, so I fail to see the difference.

You can sure tell who the elitists and who the wage workers are. So if they add it you penalize them even when you know that most people are lousy tippers and waiters struggle to survive. Aren't you just a sweetheart. Are you aware most waiters only get paid via the tips they make?

Rob, some don't even get a fare share of tips as the owner pays at the end of the night, they get their min wage for the day, anything left over the owner takes.

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by Walt, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 15:07 (98 days ago) @ frostbite

I agree!!! If anything I will give the waiter a little cash. If they add 10%, guess that is what they want.

Zih and Be Seen

by Paulf @, Mount Sterling, Ky 40353, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 17:39 (98 days ago) @ frostbite

If you put the tip on the card, the owner has to give a 1099 and the server has to pay taxes on the tip. If you pay cash there is no record. When living in Chicago years ago, I knew some waitresses that made good money on cash tips and did not pay taxes on the tips- on credit card tips had to claim.

Zih and Be Seen

by joe26170 @, Full time in Z, Friday, April 21, 2017, 09:43 (97 days ago) @ Paulf

No such thing as a 1099 in Mexico. In the US the gov. assumes a 7% tip on gross sales, credit card or not. If a waiter does not claim at least 7% they can expect a bill from the IRS, sooner or later.
I can't believe Americans and Canadians are on this board complaining about a 10% service charge added to the bill, which in most cases is 50% lower than it would be for similar food, in similar places in the US. I can say that 5 years ago when I lived in NJ and ate breakfast at a restaurant a block from the beach it would be over $10 for coffee, eggs, bacon and toast

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by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:04 (97 days ago) @ joe26170

There is a difference between tipping and a restaurant telling you how much to tip. I have no problem with the former, but definitely do with the latter.

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Who?

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, April 21, 2017, 11:01 (97 days ago) @ frostbite

There is a difference between tipping and a restaurant telling you how much to tip. I have no problem with the former, but definitely do with the latter.

Please be so kind as to point out to us exactly WHO is telling you how much to tip. Adding a 10% tip to the bill is because most customers are poor tippers and the wait staff deserves to be compensated for their services. It is NOT telling you how much to tip. You are free to have the tip removed from the bill, to leave it as it is, or to add to it. This was standard practice at many luxury resorts where I worked around 40 years ago. Never heard a customer complain. Nothing has changed since then in the restaurant business.

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Who?

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:28 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


Please be so kind as to point out to us exactly WHO is telling you how much to tip. Adding a 10% tip to the bill is because most customers are poor tippers and the wait staff deserves to be compensated for their services. It is NOT telling you how much to tip. You are free to have the tip removed from the bill, to leave it as it is, or to add to it. This was standard practice at many luxury resorts where I worked around 40 years ago. Never heard a customer complain. Nothing has changed since then in the restaurant business.

The restaurant tells you how much to pay for the food and, in the case of an added percentage for a tip, it's telling you how much to tip. Neither one has ever struck me as a suggestion.
Even if I hadn't ever worked in the food business, I'd be - and am - in favor of everybody being properly compensated for their labor. In spite of the silly assumption of that other poster, I always tip 20% and, in the case of particularly good service, I tip more. With the exception of bills for larger groups, I have never seen added tips on bills until fairly recently and when I did, the fact was posted on the menu. I have never witnessed this being done in Mexico, just in the western States, where I live. Policies might certainly be different in the Midwest, East or South.

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Who?

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, April 21, 2017, 13:45 (97 days ago) @ frostbite


Please be so kind as to point out to us exactly WHO is telling you how much to tip. Adding a 10% tip to the bill is because most customers are poor tippers and the wait staff deserves to be compensated for their services. It is NOT telling you how much to tip. You are free to have the tip removed from the bill, to leave it as it is, or to add to it. This was standard practice at many luxury resorts where I worked around 40 years ago. Never heard a customer complain. Nothing has changed since then in the restaurant business.


The restaurant tells you how much to pay for the food and, in the case of an added percentage for a tip, it's telling you how much to tip. Neither one has ever struck me as a suggestion.
Even if I hadn't ever worked in the food business, I'd be - and am - in favor of everybody being properly compensated for their labor. In spite of the silly assumption of that other poster, I always tip 20% and, in the case of particularly good service, I tip more. With the exception of bills for larger groups, I have never seen added tips on bills until fairly recently and when I did, the fact was posted on the menu. I have never witnessed this being done in Mexico, just in the western States, where I live. Policies might certainly be different in the Midwest, East or South.

Geeze. I found the problem. It's you ASSuming the restaurant is telling you that you must pay the 10% tip added to the bill because you've apparently had little experience with restaurants doing so. Never ASSume, amigo. The practice is used here because there has been a growing and historical problem with too many folks not leaving any tip or leaving woefully insufficient tips. Not sure why this remains a problem for you now that it's been explained to you in detail.

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Who?

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 15:42 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


The restaurant tells you how much to pay for the food and, in the case of an added percentage for a tip, it's telling you how much to tip. Neither one has ever struck me as a suggestion.
Even if I hadn't ever worked in the food business, I'd be - and am - in favor of everybody being properly compensated for their labor. In spite of the silly assumption of that other poster, I always tip 20% and, in the case of particularly good service, I tip more. With the exception of bills for larger groups, I have never seen added tips on bills until fairly recently and when I did, the fact was posted on the menu. I have never witnessed this being done in Mexico, just in the western States, where I live. Policies might certainly be different in the Midwest, East or South.


Geeze. I found the problem. It's you ASSuming the restaurant is telling you that you must pay the 10% tip added to the bill because you've apparently had little experience with restaurants doing so. Never ASSume, amigo. The practice is used here because there has been a growing and historical problem with too many folks not leaving any tip or leaving woefully insufficient tips. Not sure why this remains a problem for you now that it's been explained to you in detail.

I know that you're not really that dense to not understand my point. A bill tells you what you owe. If the line below the sub-total were to say: "suggested gratuity", rather than just "gratuity", it would be clear to the diner that it's voluntary. But, again, I have never been asked for a tip on a restaurant bill in Mexico. I am well aware that many Mexicans are lousy tippers. Feel free to have the last word.

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by ZihuaRx, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:32 (97 days ago) @ frostbite

Why would you take your business elsewhere in the future? If you are so against it why wouldn't you just not go there in the first place? You would like to tip 20%, but if they ask for 10% that's all you give? Just don't go to those places so you can be happy with your 20% (which I have a feeling you have never tipped). In Calgary (sorry oil country)when we have 10 or or guests they demand a minimum of a 10% tip...sometimes 15% tip...I know this so I have the choice to go there or not....if I choose to go and the service is good...guess what I tip more...Rob and I might not agree on sea level rising, lack of polar bears, ice at the north and south poles, but I couldn't agree more on waiters and tips. And stand up paddle boards still suck. Have a good night everybody

Zih and Be Seen

by victorio, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 23:55 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRx

Hola
What drugs are you on? Must have some good stuff in Calgary. As an aside do you go to any of the blues clubs in Cal? May make the trek there this summer to listen to Tim Williams at the Blues Can. Did you see him in Z for Guitar Fest? He was great.

Zih and Be Seen

by ZihuaRx, Friday, April 21, 2017, 12:22 (97 days ago) @ victorio

Hola. Just a little chedley and tequila and yes Calgary does have some good herb. All of Canada actually. Not sure about the blues clubs. No more texts for me after 11 (am?). Have a good day everyone.

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Zih and Be Seen

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 07:36 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRx

Why would you take your business elsewhere in the future? If you are so against it why wouldn't you just not go there in the first place?

Duh! Because one doesn't find out about their practice until after the meal and presentation of the bill.

You would like to tip 20%, but if they ask for 10% that's all you give? Just don't go to those places so you can be happy with your 20% (which I have a feeling you have never tipped).

As the old saying goes: to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.

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Zih and Be Seen

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Thursday, April 20, 2017, 13:43 (98 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Very pretty day!

Keith

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Más Chile Más Mejor

Zih and Be Seen

by Craig AKA the cruise ship guy @, Friday, April 21, 2017, 09:02 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I totally agree with Rob. There are too many people that don't tip and I don't want to feel like I need to make up for them. It's on the bill and obvious so it's not like they are trying to scam you. It's standard procedure in Panama and Costa Rica so you shouldn't go there if it bothers you. Some people/cultures don't get tipping but that's not going to feed the waiters family. I really feel bad for the maids who don't get tipped like they should. Going to San Francisco for the weekend and many restaurants have added a surcharge for the price of doing business in San Francisco, you gotta love that one.

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Zih and Be Seen

by Labrat ⌂ @, The Roosterfish Foundation, Friday, April 21, 2017, 09:06 (97 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I see that we have arrived at the New Season a little early this year.

[image]

Keith

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Más Chile Más Mejor

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by Pelicano, Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:04 (97 days ago) @ Labrat

I see that we have arrived at the New Season a little early this year.

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Keith

Ah, Mannekin Pis, un beau mec!

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Zih and Be Seen

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Friday, April 21, 2017, 10:24 (97 days ago) @ Labrat

This (more or less) original statue of Manneke Pis is located in Brussels. Someone with more money than taste, put a copy on his house in Barra de Potosi.

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by rdcosta @, Monday, April 24, 2017, 09:55 (94 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I definitely don't have a problem with a tip,in fact I tell most people I eat with, 15 percent, what I have a problem with is it being put on the bill automatically. Not often but once in a while the service, or the meal,is not up to standard and I like to be able to let them know, by the amount of the tip