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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by Johnny Briefcase @, Monday, April 16, 2018, 11:47 (8 days ago)

The Mexican Tourism Minister, De La Madrid, is advocating Marijuana legalization while former President Fox, proposes that poppy opium production be legalized. The aim of both ideas is to reduce gang violence. President Pena Nieto thinks that Mexico and the US should not pursue divergent drug policy . At the same time, the Trudeau government in Canada is considering the decriminalization of all illegal substances.

The question is, Would a combination of decriminalization and legalization significantly reduce drug related violence. While the devil is in the details, I think the answer is yes. ....JB

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-tourism/mexican-states-should-start-legalizing-marijuana-tourism-minister-idUSKBN1HJ32G

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-drugs/former-mexican-president-fox-calls-for-opium-poppy-legalization-idUSKBN1HJ02Q

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberal-caucus-proposes-decriminalization-of-all-illegal-drugs/article37764543/

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Of Course It Would!

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Monday, April 16, 2018, 12:09 (8 days ago) @ Johnny Briefcase

The Mexican Tourism Minister, De La Madrid, is advocating Marijuana legalization while former President Fox, proposes that poppy opium production be legalized. The aim of both ideas is to reduce gang violence. President Pena Nieto thinks that Mexico and the US should not pursue divergent drug policy . At the same time, the Trudeau government in Canada is considering the decriminalization of all illegal substances.

The question is, Would a combination of decriminalization and legalization significantly reduce drug related violence. While the devil is in the details, I think the answer is yes. ....JB

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-tourism/mexican-states-should-start-legalizing-marijuana-tourism-minister-idUSKBN1HJ32G

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-drugs/former-mexican-president-fox-calls-for-opium-poppy-legalization-idUSKBN1HJ02Q

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberal-caucus-proposes-decriminalization-of-all-illegal-drugs/article37764543/

I agree wholeheartedly with you. The Prohibition and the criminalizing of consumers of popular recreational and medicinal substances is sheer hypocrisy. Hospitals are full of folks suffering ailments from smoking, consumption of sugar, bad diets and even contact with plastics. Taxpayers and insurance holders foot the bill one way or another for all these unhealthy people. Then they also foot the bill for the poor lawmakers who make bad laws that waste the resources of our police forces.

Will the last idiot who still thinks the so-called war on drugs can be won by criminalizing users and dealers and traffickers please raise their hand?

Unlike Prohibition 1.0, we've allowed this nonsense to go on so long that organized criminals have become more empowered than our police forces, and in some cases, our governments. There is no winning any war against foes who have 10 million dollars for every million the government can spend on resources. The only thing of substance this terrible policy has achieved is to create organized criminals who are as wealthy and powerful as many of the world's largest financial institutions and corporations.

What legalization and regulation can achieve in the short term is a leveling of the playing field by removing the largest source of income for organized criminals, an immediate decrease in violence (nothing to fight over if there are no routes or markets to protect), and in the long run it frees up resources to provide better schooling, better health care, better treatment for abusers and addicts, and a reduction in addicts and abusers as well as crime and health problems associated with the use of recreational substances as well as a reduction in the allure of young people seeking fast money in the world of organized crime. Everyone wins except arms manufacturers, militarized departments of police forces including the DEA who lose their multimillion dollar budgets, organized criminals, corrupt public servants, unscrupulous bankers, and Big Pharma, Big Alcohol and Big Tobacco.

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Of Course It Would!

by hromero ⌂ @, Monday, April 16, 2018, 12:20 (8 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

Ha, I promise I didn't read this before my own post. Almost exactly my response but in different words.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by Blanq, Monday, April 16, 2018, 12:15 (8 days ago) @ Johnny Briefcase

My thought is that if legalization would take place, the narcos would have to turn to other illicit activities for money, ie more kidnappings, ransoms, robberies, extortions.. etc. Then, all of a sudden, the general population bares the brunt of the threat. Thoughts?

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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by hromero ⌂ @, Monday, April 16, 2018, 12:28 (8 days ago) @ Blanq

I think in the short term that may be a possibility. The organized crime operations in the U.S. didn't disappear after alcohol was legalized again. They redirected their activities to other endeavors. However, it vastly reduced their ability to raise funds and over the course of the following decades their power dissolved. I don't think the switch of violence can be turned off overnight because it is a problem that developed over decades but I think it is a strategy that can pay vast dividends in the medium term.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by RJ @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:12 (5 days ago) @ hromero

I am for decriminalization for my own selfish reasons, however here in Mexico this would not slow the violence.
In my opion it would just shift the way Narcos do business. It may even effect innocentes more. My guess is kidnapping, extortion, grand theft etc. would rise.
My reasoning is the gangs are not going away, they are not going to get a 200.00 peso a day job and they will do other nasty things to make money. It would "evolve".

Perhaps if there was less emphasis on money laundering, there would be a chance of gangs opening more legitimate businesses, property and real goods purchasing. Maybe provide a "somewhat" more positive integration into society, with job creation and rising property values. Just an idea, there is no definitive answer to this problem but taking this income "Drugs" from narcos will not make narcos go away.... careful what you are trying to achieve as it could very well get worse.

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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:05 (5 days ago) @ RJ

I am for decriminalization for my own selfish reasons, however here in Mexico this would not slow the violence.
In my opion it would just shift the way Narcos do business. It may even effect innocentes more. My guess is kidnapping, extortion, grand theft etc. would rise.
My reasoning is the gangs are not going away, they are not going to get a 200.00 peso a day job and they will do other nasty things to make money. It would "evolve".

Perhaps if there was less emphasis on money laundering, there would be a chance of gangs opening more legitimate businesses, property and real goods purchasing. Maybe provide a "somewhat" more positive integration into society, with job creation and rising property values. Just an idea, there is no definitive answer to this problem but taking this income "Drugs" from narcos will not make narcos go away.... careful what you are trying to achieve as it could very well get worse.

Is that what the USA mafias from the Prohibition 1.0 era did? No, they began to lose their power and become anachronisms.

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by HolyMole @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 17:41 (5 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

"Is that what the USA mafias from the Prohibition 1.0 era did? No, they began to lose their power and become anachronisms."

Organized crime in the USA has become an anachronism? All because Prohibition ended?
No, those anachronisms with the bent noses have been replaced by MBAs and lawyers. The amounts of money involved dwarf anything the Capones could imagine in their wildest dreams. Organized crime is nothing if not flexible.

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 18:01 (5 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Sorry Rob but I would tend to agree with RJ on this one and you are way off regarding your statement of the mafia. What they control and the amount of money generated is insane even with all the police involved trying to stop them. I'm not a user but I favor legalization and decriminalization of marijuana but not the hard drugs like cocaine, heroine and the likes.

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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 18:49 (5 days ago) @ cd69

Sorry Rob but I would tend to agree with RJ on this one and you are way off regarding your statement of the mafia. What they control and the amount of money generated is insane even with all the police involved trying to stop them. I'm not a user but I favor legalization and decriminalization of marijuana but not the hard drugs like cocaine, heroine and the likes.

The point being they aren't still violence-driven thugs having shootouts in the streets to protect their routes and markets. Now they buy politicians to make their laws for them. Yes, some are in the drug trade. Others run Nevada.

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by HolyMole @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 17:30 (5 days ago) @ RJ

Isn't "opening more legitimate businesses, property and real goods purchasing" a perfect description of the aims of money laundering?

How many empty condos are there along the beach in Ixtapa? Mostly "property and real goods purchasing"...... by bad guys. Look at what Manafort has done with his millions.

Ever wonder at the scope of worldwide money laundering? Here are some breathtaking examples from Wikipedia's article on money laundering:

Charter House Bank in Kenya was placed under statutory management in 2006 by the Central Bank of Kenya after it was discovered the bank was being used for money laundering activities by multiple accounts containing missing customer information. More than $1.5 billion had been laundered before the scam was uncovered.

Bank of Credit and Commerce International: Unknown amount, estimated in billions, of criminal proceeds, including drug trafficking money, laundered during the mid-1980s.

Bank of New York: US$7 billion of Russian capital flight laundered through accounts controlled by bank executives, late 1990s.

Ferdinand Marcos: Unknown amount, estimated at US$10 billion of government assets laundered through banks and financial institutions in the United States, Liechtenstein, Austria, Panama, Netherlands Antilles, Cayman Islands, Vanuatu, Hong Kong, Singapore, Monaco, the Bahamas, the Vatican and Switzerland.

HSBC, in December 2012, paid a record $1.9 Billion fines for money-laundering hundreds of millions of dollars for drug traffickers, terrorists and sanctioned governments such as Iran. The money-laundering occurred throughout the 2000s.

Liberty Reserve, in May 2013, was seized by United States federal authorities for laundering $6 billion.

Institute for the Works of Religion: Italian authorities investigated suspected money laundering transactions amounting to US$218 million made by the IOR to several Italian banks.

Nauru: US$70 billion of Russian capital flight laundered through unregulated Nauru offshore shell banks, late 1990s

Sani Abacha: US$2–5 billion of government assets laundered through banks in the UK, Luxembourg, Jersey (Channel Islands), and Switzerland, by the president of Nigeria.

Standard Chartered: paid $330 million in fines for money-laundering hundreds of billions of dollars for Iran. The money-laundering took place in the 2000s and occurred for "nearly a decade to hide 60,000 transactions worth $250 billion".

Standard Bank: Standard Bank South Africa London Branch – The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has fined Standard Bank PLC (Standard Bank) £7,640,400 for failings relating to its anti-money laundering (AML) policies and procedures.....

etc., etc.

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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 17:27 (7 days ago) @ Blanq

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Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by hromero ⌂ @, Monday, April 16, 2018, 12:17 (8 days ago) @ Johnny Briefcase

:megusta:

I am not entirely certain whether it is legalization of drugs or the decriminalization of those drugs that is the answer. It is likely a combination of the two. Drug abuse is not a criminal offense, it is a health issue, in my humble opinion. I have two family members who became addicted to meth and throwing them in jail/prison did nothing to help their addiction. The only thing that turning them into criminals did was push them into social circles which promoted more criminal behavior and pushed them into supporting those criminal networks which prosper because of our failed "war on drugs".

Unfortunately I think the powerful arms industry in the United States is profiting too much from this war on drugs to let it die easily and they are lobbying hard to keep that stream of money flowing in their direction. It is important for U.S., Canadian, Mexican, and other citizens to push their governments towards a saner policy and redirect that money to health care for those people who find themselves addicted. We know that alcohol prohibition in the U.S. didn't work and led to the rise of horrible criminal organizations in the country. It was only after the legalization and regulation of alcohol that those criminal organizations began to lose their power. We have an example of how the combination of treatment, education and regulation of a harmful substance can lead to a successful reduction in abuse; cigarettes. We allow people who insist that it is something they want use to use it, but they now do it with all the information while paying closer to the costs per pack that they should.

I tend to be more for decriminalization than legalization, but I think either would be an improvement over the current failed strategy.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

Would Gang Violence Decrease With Drug Legalization

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 01:29 (7 days ago) @ Johnny Briefcase