New Street Rules

by jaime13 @, Thursday, December 06, 2018, 16:03 (3 days ago)

Until this season, we all enjoyed eating/drinking in all the restaurants/bars along the downtowm pedestrian areas - wonderful ambience/ no cars, etc. It seems the new regime has decreed that no tables can be seen in the cobblestoned walkways. Now one could shoot a cannon down these streets, and now the pizza/burger delivery scooters race up and down. It's a ridiculous situation. What is the point? And, of course, some joints pay no attention to the new rules, while others, probably those who can't afford to "pay off" have to obey the so-called authorities. Can we somehow return to the old ways?

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, December 06, 2018, 19:31 (3 days ago) @ jaime13

Until this season, we all enjoyed eating/drinking in all the restaurants/bars along the downtowm pedestrian areas - wonderful ambience/ no cars, etc. It seems the new regime has decreed that no tables can be seen in the cobblestoned walkways. Now one could shoot a cannon down these streets, and now the pizza/burger delivery scooters race up and down. It's a ridiculous situation. What is the point? And, of course, some joints pay no attention to the new rules, while others, probably those who can't afford to "pay off" have to obey the so-called authorities. Can we somehow return to the old ways?

Gee, my wife and I were just commenting last evening about how nice it is to be able to stroll that part of town again without tables in the way and blaring music. We enjoy having the streets cleared and easily passable. All the restaurants seemed to be doing a booming business, and now their customers don't have to wait so long for their meals. I don't see what's ridiculous about wanting our pedestrian streets passable without having to squeeze between tables and chairs.

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New Street Rules

by Talley Ho @, Thursday, December 06, 2018, 19:53 (3 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

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New Street Rules

by jaui @, Zihuatanejo, Friday, December 07, 2018, 00:39 (3 days ago) @ ZihuaRob
edited by jaui, Friday, December 07, 2018, 01:04

12/07/2018

Exactly! ;-)
:megusta:


Though to be fair jaime13's point:


"we all enjoyed eating/drinking in all the restaurants/bars along the downtown pedestrian areas - wonderful ambiance/ no cars, etc."

is also understandable......

@jaime13:
It seems to me that when a business rents a "local" they should conduct their business within that local and NOT on the public walkway, as they are not renting the street to conduct their business, just the local.

What happened over the years was little-by-little the restaurants or "fondas" started extending out of the confines of the space they rent, and on to the sidewalks, to the point that it was the "normality" to see tables and chairs on the streets, which people like jaime13 do enjoy.

And, most likely, unos inspectores de la D.A.C.I.E.P saw it as an opportunity to "make a buck", thus, got their cut:nono: to permit them on the streets.

So the new Alcalde, el Lic. Jorge Sánchez, is trying to restore some semblance of order, as I.M.O, that needs to be.

--
jaui

New Street Rules

by zulualpha, Friday, December 07, 2018, 06:58 (2 days ago) @ jaui

Hola Jaui.....With respect, your post and the two above yours, suggest that payoffs to corrupt city inspectors -- "legal" extorsion -- are OK, if the result suits your tastes. I´m sure you prefer a fair, transparent and democratic administration at City Hall, but you can´t have it both ways, ¿verdad? An aside, to jaime13´s point. What about those speeding motorbikes? Surely they are more of a threat to pedestrian safety that a sandwich board in the street?

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New Street Rules

by jaui @, Zihuatanejo, Friday, December 07, 2018, 12:56 (2 days ago) @ zulualpha

12/06/2018

Hola Jaui.....With respect, your post and the two above yours, suggest that payoffs to corrupt city inspectors -- "legal" extorsion -- are OK, if the result suits your tastes. I´m sure you prefer a fair, transparent and democratic administration at City Hall, but you can´t have it both ways, ¿verdad? An aside, to jaime13´s point. What about those speeding motorbikes? Surely they are more of a threat to pedestrian safety that a sandwich board in the street?

Hola zulualpha:

NO argument from me.

I am NOT in favor of "legal" extortion or any other "payments" to Inspectors de la D.A.C.I.E.P, or ANY other government personnel in order to permit things that aren't (or should not be) permitted.

The having it "both ways" I am also not at all in favor of.
Rather, it has been a commonly practiced local government trait for quite some time.
Like I said, just about anything :nono: to make a few extra pesos:vivamexico:

As far as the motorbikes that zip in and out of the streets and Andadores , as you mentioned, they are an annoying SAFETY THREAT.
If U ask me, they should be prohibited.
It is difficult to control because, in less than a blink of an eye, the motorbikes come zipping in.
IF officials de Tránsito were to be placed in strategic points of entry to catch & fine them, I suspect the problem may be reduced. Unlikely that will happen.

Nevertheless, the case of las cillas y las mesas being put out on the adoquín is a separate issue from the motorbike problem.

Saludos

--
jaui

New Street Rules

by HolyMole @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 14:15 (2 days ago) @ jaui


As far as the motorbikes that zip in and out of the streets and Andadores , as you mentioned, they are an annoying SAFETY THREAT.
If U ask me, they should be prohibited.
It is difficult to control because, in less than a blink of an eye, the motorbikes come zipping in.
IF officials de Tránsito were to be placed in strategic points of entry to catch & fine them, I suspect the problem may be reduced. Unlikely that will happen.

Motorbikes are already prohibited....and have been for years. As you say, it's enforcement that's missing. Zulualpha is right: the motorbikes pose a much greater threat than a few sandwich boards....or a few tables.

New Street Rules

by Timole, Friday, December 07, 2018, 08:24 (2 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

When I live in Northern Wisconsin I dream of a restaurant I can sit outside on a beautiful evening. And how does this affect lines?

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, December 07, 2018, 09:27 (2 days ago) @ Timole

When I live in Northern Wisconsin I dream of a restaurant I can sit outside on a beautiful evening. And how does this affect lines?

There are many open-air restaurants, especially along the beachfront and also on the covered sidewalks. The only thing that has changed is they are no longer allowed to operate in the streets except in a few places where there is no sidewalk, then they can pay a fee to use a small portion of the street in front of their business. Basically like things were until about 6 or so years ago.

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New Street Rules

by zulualpha, Friday, December 07, 2018, 15:58 (1 day, 22 hours, 34 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

"Squeeze between tables and chairs…." Really? Respectfully, I think your hyperbole runneth over, amigo. Thing is, most foreign visitors enjoy lively street life in a foreign country. It`s one big reason they come here!

If visitors seek "safe spaces," geez, I mean, they might consider just staying home, to stroll through their favorite (sterile, sanitized) shopping mall instead. (Early Sunday mornings would be best, I`d think.)

The new "regs" are not being evenly applied, require the purchase of "special permits," thus establishing a "pay-to-play" City Hall-administered business ethic, and crimp what many consider to be an enjoyable tourist attraction.


This is not how Zihua can score the "bonus points" it deserves. Surely, with a little imagination, City Hall can come up with a better plan.

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, December 07, 2018, 18:58 (1 day, 19 hours, 34 min. ago) @ zulualpha

"Squeeze between tables and chairs…." Really? Respectfully, I think your hyperbole runneth over, amigo. Thing is, most foreign visitors enjoy lively street life in a foreign country. It`s one big reason they come here!

If visitors seek "safe spaces," geez, I mean, they might consider just staying home, to stroll through their favorite (sterile, sanitized) shopping mall instead. (Early Sunday mornings would be best, I`d think.)

The new "regs" are not being evenly applied, require the purchase of "special permits," thus establishing a "pay-to-play" City Hall-administered business ethic, and crimp what many consider to be an enjoyable tourist attraction.


This is not how Zihua can score the "bonus points" it deserves. Surely, with a little imagination, City Hall can come up with a better plan.

Odd, Zihuatanejo never seemed to me to be popular for its nightlife or street cafés that were actually IN the street until the past 10 to 15 years, and during that time it seems most patrons of those places have been the folks who arrive on weekends in buses and cars from El Bajío. Before that there were about 3 or 4 bars downtown where foreigners hung out and they all closed at midnight. If folks wanted to party longer they either went to one of the "adult" joints in the Zona de Tolerancia where the old Estrella de Oro bus station used to be or they went to one of the discos in Ixtapa. It was a rather perfect arrangement for all involved.

Folks seeking that party life you describe always preferred Acapulco or Vallarta or Cancún, and locals were always quite happy with that arrangement, with the exception of some folks who just came here to suckle from Zihuatanejo's cash cow. Zihuatanejo is a community that welcomes tourists, not a tourist destination that imports its workers like Cancún or Disney World, and as far as I'm aware folks here prefer that our downtown area where we live and have our family-run hotels and businesses be a place where we can sleep at night so we can get up early and get our kids off to school and go to work well-rested and ready for the day. To my knowledge Zihuatanejo has never been one of those places defined by its tourists. Quite the opposite.

So I'll have to respectfully disagree if you think Zihuatanejo's prosperity depends on attracting party folks who want to hang out in our downtown streets, at least as long as so many of the old families still reside and raise their families here. I get it that folks from other places have all kinds of ideas for Zihuatanejo, but I'm pretty sure Zihuatanejo's community prospers more when Zihuatanejo doesn't try to pretend to be something it isn't. And "party destination" has never been one of its attractions. That's what Ixtapa is for, or Cancún, or Acapulco, or Vallarta, or Los Cabos.

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New Street Rules

by Eli @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 19:13 (1 day, 19 hours, 20 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

100% with you, Rob. Us regular people get up early and to bed early. Don’t want noisy bars keeping us up all night!

New Street Rules

by jaime13 @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 19:51 (1 day, 18 hours, 42 min. ago) @ Eli

If you want to go to bed early and get up early, fine. Why live downtown? Go to the 'burbs! Or move to a sleepy town and be happy. Tourism is the lifeblood of Zihua. Get a life!

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, December 07, 2018, 19:57 (1 day, 18 hours, 35 min. ago) @ jaime13

If you want to go to bed early and get up early, fine. Why live downtown? Go to the 'burbs! Or move to a sleepy town and be happy. Tourism is the lifeblood of Zihua. Get a life!

Wow. That was simply rude. This is where my wife's family built their home when they were also building this community, like many of my neighbors. YOU don't get to tell US where to live.

Tourism may be our life blood, but as I already mentioned, it doesn't define us or our community. So if YOU want to go to an alcoholic's party paradise I respectfully suggest you visit some other place. We don't wish to be the place you appear to be seeking.

New Street Rules

by Casa Juan @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 21:00 (1 day, 17 hours, 32 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

yes tourism greases the local Zihuatanejo financial skids; be it waiter, maids, vendors, realtors and other related employment in Zihua as well as this webmaster's income. Not a fan of late night bar noise, but not a virgin either.

New Street Rules

by HolyMole @, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 01:06 (1 day, 13 hours, 26 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

If you want to go to bed early and get up early, fine. Why live downtown? Go to the 'burbs! Or move to a sleepy town and be happy. Tourism is the lifeblood of Zihua. Get a life!


Wow. That was simply rude. This is where my wife's family built their home when they were also building this community, like many of my neighbors. YOU don't get to tell US where to live.

Tourism may be our life blood, but as I already mentioned, it doesn't define us or our community. So if YOU want to go to an alcoholic's party paradise I respectfully suggest you visit some other place. We don't wish to be the place you appear to be seeking.

This thread has strayed 'way into left field. No poster has suggested favouring "an alcoholic's party paradise", or "the party life", or drink-all-night carousing. In fact, if I know several of these posters, they're rather reserved folks who are usually home by 10:00.....at the latest.
Although I'm not yet there to see for myself, the complaint seems to be that by "cleaning up" the pedestrian walkways, much of the ambience has been sacrificed. That, and the uneven application of the rules regarding who can have outside tables, and where.

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 10:42 (1 day, 3 hours, 50 min. ago) @ HolyMole

If you want to go to bed early and get up early, fine. Why live downtown? Go to the 'burbs! Or move to a sleepy town and be happy. Tourism is the lifeblood of Zihua. Get a life!


Wow. That was simply rude. This is where my wife's family built their home when they were also building this community, like many of my neighbors. YOU don't get to tell US where to live.

Tourism may be our life blood, but as I already mentioned, it doesn't define us or our community. So if YOU want to go to an alcoholic's party paradise I respectfully suggest you visit some other place. We don't wish to be the place you appear to be seeking.


This thread has strayed 'way into left field. No poster has suggested favouring "an alcoholic's party paradise", or "the party life", or drink-all-night carousing. In fact, if I know several of these posters, they're rather reserved folks who are usually home by 10:00.....at the latest.
Although I'm not yet there to see for myself, the complaint seems to be that by "cleaning up" the pedestrian walkways, much of the ambience has been sacrificed. That, and the uneven application of the rules regarding who can have outside tables, and where.

Strayed? Jim just told all of Zihuatanejo's downtown residents to MOVE if we don't like folks drinking in our streets. You'll just have to excuse me for saying that is an extremely rude thing to do. Even when I lived here 44 years ago drinking in public was frowned upon if not illegal. Part of the local culture and its mores. The cops used to arrest folks for drinking in public, but because we allowed some leniency look where it's taken us. The recent application of city policy reflects a strong desire by downtown residents and merchants to reverse the tendency of recent years that have seen our neighborhood becoming an open-air cantina.

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New Street Rules

by Talley Ho @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 19:20 (1 day, 19 hours, 13 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

Living here, we don't think of this as a place for night life, but as a place to live and enjoy the fabulous beaches, wonderful ocean and great people.

We think of it as a place that is user friendly/people friendly. That may change, but seriously, think about where most of you live. Would you want your neighborhoods rearranged to accommodate a seasonal influx of people who don't care about the town, people or area?

What's the phrase? NIMBY? Not in my back yard!!!

You are very welcome here, we enjoy you when you are here, but realize that people LIVE and WORK here too!

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New Street Rules

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, December 07, 2018, 19:53 (1 day, 18 hours, 39 min. ago) @ Talley Ho

Living here, we don't think of this as a place for night life, but as a place to live and enjoy the fabulous beaches, wonderful ocean and great people.

We think of it as a place that is user friendly/people friendly. That may change, but seriously, think about where most of you live. Would you want your neighborhoods rearranged to accommodate a seasonal influx of people who don't care about the town, people or area?

What's the phrase? NIMBY? Not in my back yard!!!

You are very welcome here, we enjoy you when you are here, but realize that people LIVE and WORK here too!

Precisely, and we feel we are already quite accommodating to our visitors.

Before unscrupulous city "officials" allowed our downtown area to become basically an open-air cantina, this used to be one of our most picturesque little streets that even appeared in some classic Mexican movies like "Las Pirañas Comen en Cuaresma" where our former neighbor Doña Cari had a cameo appearance selling mariscos in what is now a pizza restaurant, I believe.
[image]

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New Street Rules

by Leemr @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 23:26 (1 day, 15 hours, 6 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

Hey Rob, your foto of 21 years ago should be followed by a current foto of what this previously quite location looks like today, during open hours!

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Then & Now (progress blues)

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 09:09 (1 day, 5 hours, 23 min. ago) @ Leemr

Hey Rob, your foto of 21 years ago should be followed by a current foto of what this previously quite location looks like today, during open hours!

That photo is actually from about 48 years ago. Today there's a canal with a footbridge across it where the old photo was taken, and not a single one of those beautiful trees are left. Some folks might call that progress, but not me.

This shows about where the photographer was standing in the 1970 photo. He would've been facing to the left standing about where the concrete electric pole is.
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This is where all those coconut palms and banana trees used to be.
[image]

This is taken from the current pedestrian footbridge, which was only a slab of concrete in the 1970 photo.
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Here´s the issue....

by zulualpha, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 06:58 (1 day, 7 hours, 34 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

Here´s the issue:

Zihua´s tourist sector is changing; new demographics have been emerging for a few years now, as you note. There is national tourism (big numbers, low spenders) and international tourism (low numbers, big spenders). Each has its own, distinct behavioural pattern. One example: National tourists go out for the evening starting at 10p.m. "Los gringos" are mostly in bed by that time.

In an effort to control the "all-night" bar crowd, in numbers largely, but not entirely, national tourists, City Hall wants all tables off the street (even in the daytime.) But in doing so, City Hall is trampling on an important tourist attraction for foreigners, who want to dine out-of-doors, under the stars, cobblestones underfoot, in the street! To repeat, that´s one big reason they come here.

City Hall is throwing the baby out with the bath water. They need to come up with a Plan "B," one that addresses the main problem, without creating another.

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Here´s the issue....

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 10:32 (1 day, 4 hours, 0 min. ago) @ zulualpha

Here´s the issue:

Zihua´s tourist sector is changing; new demographics have been emerging for a few years now, as you note. There is national tourism (big numbers, low spenders) and international tourism (low numbers, big spenders). Each has its own, distinct behavioural pattern. One example: National tourists go out for the evening starting at 10p.m. "Los gringos" are mostly in bed by that time.

In an effort to control the "all-night" bar crowd, in numbers largely, but not entirely, national tourists, City Hall wants all tables off the street (even in the daytime.) But in doing so, City Hall is trampling on an important tourist attraction for foreigners, who want to dine out-of-doors, under the stars, cobblestones underfoot, in the street! To repeat, that´s one big reason they come here.

City Hall is throwing the baby out with the bath water. They need to come up with a Plan "B," one that addresses the main problem, without creating another.

Methinks there is an exaggeration occurring here.

The number of street restaurants popular with foreign tourists in this part of town are about three, maybe four max. And there are much better restaurants under the stars fronting the beach.

Allowing restaurants that only use the street for their dining area because they have no other space is unfair to the restaurants who actually built or rented large enough spaces to accommodate their diners as well as those who have outdoor dining, like Coconuts or El Mediterráneo. Pizza joints that opened up and that at first depended on deliveries and take-outs later blocked half the street with tables. Calles Pedro Ascencio, Agustín Ramírez, Cuauhtémoc and Hermenegildo Galeana saw one eatery and bar after another pop up and simply use only the sidewalk and street for their diners and drinkers with little regard for pedestrians. The restaurants and bars are still being allowed to use the sidewalks, just not the street, so you can still "dine out-of-doors, under the stars, cobblestones underfoot" at those two or three restaurants popular with some foreigners that have been forced to remove their tables from the streets.

This is a photo of Calle Pedro Ascencio from 5 years ago. No tables in the street here.
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Here´s the issue....

by zulualpha, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 11:35 (1 day, 2 hours, 58 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

Of course there are no tables in the photo; by the location of the sunlight, the photo was taken a few minutes after dawn. C`mon now, `fess up.

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Here´s the issue....

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Saturday, December 08, 2018, 12:36 (1 day, 1 hours, 57 min. ago) @ zulualpha

Of course there are no tables in the photo; by the location of the sunlight, the photo was taken a few minutes after dawn. C`mon now, `fess up.

Ha! No, sir. That’s a genuwhine authentic photo taken at sunset time. We were on our way back home from buying coffee at a street café on Hermenagilda Galeana. One of those places where foreign tourists rarely visited. B-)

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New Street Rules

by Leemr @, Friday, December 07, 2018, 23:10 (1 day, 15 hours, 22 min. ago) @ ZihuaRob

Right-on ROB, I second that!