Flights and Covid - Oh My

by jay @, Tuesday, October 20, 2020, 23:48 (43 days ago)

If you're nervous about flying, go here for a deep dive into the numbers. It's pretty reassuring.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/20/quantifying-the-incredibly-unlikely-transmission-of-covid-on-airplanes/

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by midalake @, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 00:48 (43 days ago) @ jay

If you're nervous about flying, go here for a deep dive into the numbers. It's pretty reassuring.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/20/quantifying-the-incredibly-unlikely-transmission-of-covid-on-airplanes/


Serious question. Who fly's down to Mexico on a 777 or 767????
How about the cubic air space and a reality check for a CRJ or AB319?

YES, I am still VERY nervous!

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Flights and Covid - Oh My

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 14:28 (42 days ago) @ midalake

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Flights and Covid - Oh My

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 10:06 (41 days ago) @ frostbite

When I click on the attachment in my previous post, I get a message that it couldn't be found. When I type it into a search engine, it comes up. WTF?

--
[image]
Casa Amarilla Vacation Rental
http://www.casaamarillazihua.com/

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Flights and Covid - Oh My

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 10:16 (41 days ago) @ frostbite

When I click on the attachment in my previous post, I get a message that it couldn't be found. When I type it into a search engine, it comes up. WTF?

Not an attachment, a LINK. You posted an incomplete URL (link). I fixed it.

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Flights and Covid - Oh My

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:16 (41 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Thanks!

--
[image]
Casa Amarilla Vacation Rental
http://www.casaamarillazihua.com/

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 17:40 (42 days ago) @ midalake

You are correct about the large carriers that are very unlikely to be used to go to Mexico. But the smaller planes cubic space is not as much an issue as the fact all [planes are not keeping space between passengers anymore. In terms of air quality, the airlines are promising proper maintenance of their filtration system that would make the air safer. That would be helpful but does nothing to the rest of the issues that are more concerning than air quality since this virus is more of a droplet issue than one that just hang in the air that you breathe in.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 17:36 (42 days ago) @ jay

A couple issues with these so called studies. First off, it is basically the airlines doing studies on themselves and their numbers have been called extremely unreliable by most doctors/scientists reliable organization like the CDC, WHO, Health Canada and the likes. Another study was the one done by the US army but the methods of that study are questioned again by most organizations. But ther eis so much more than t makes these studies highly laughable. First off, the number of cases reported on these studies is a joke. Just in the city where I live, we have had more airline reported cases than all these studies are reporting. They are hiding the numbers stating that it cannot be proven the virus was contracted onboard so therefore it did not happen. If they had kept the middle row unoccupied like when some airlines here did on the restart and do all the promised maintenance of their air filtration system, they may have a point as most travel related cases are likely happening in airports and going through customs/security but now that they are trying to pack the planes again, we have zero social distancing so even with masks, the likelihood of catching covid19 is high. I work for the transportation industry for the record and we are fighting to resume full service but there are huge issues and the industry has to be more honest.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by Ironwood @, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 18:16 (42 days ago) @ cd69

A couple issues with these so called studies. First off, it is basically the airlines doing studies on themselves and their numbers have been called extremely unreliable by most doctors/scientists reliable organization like the CDC, WHO, Health Canada and the likes. Another study was the one done by the US army but the methods of that study are questioned again by most organizations. But ther eis so much more than t makes these studies highly laughable. First off, the number of cases reported on these studies is a joke. Just in the city where I live, we have had more airline reported cases than all these studies are reporting. They are hiding the numbers stating that it cannot be proven the virus was contracted onboard so therefore it did not happen. If they had kept the middle row unoccupied like when some airlines here did on the restart and do all the promised maintenance of their air filtration system, they may have a point as most travel related cases are likely happening in airports and going through customs/security but now that they are trying to pack the planes again, we have zero social distancing so even with masks, the likelihood of catching covid19 is high. I work for the transportation industry for the record and we are fighting to resume full service but there are huge issues and the industry has to be more honest.

As much as I regret having to agree, you get a :megusta:

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 18:51 (42 days ago) @ Ironwood

Believe me, this situation does not make me happy for myself and for my friends here in Zihua.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by Altona Stu @, Altona, Manitoba, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 22:47 (42 days ago) @ cd69

A couple issues with these so called studies. First off, it is basically the airlines doing studies on themselves and their numbers have been called extremely unreliable by most doctors/scientists reliable organization like the CDC, WHO, Health Canada and the likes. Another study was the one done by the US army but the methods of that study are questioned again by most organizations. But ther eis so much more than t makes these studies highly laughable. First off, the number of cases reported on these studies is a joke. Just in the city where I live, we have had more airline reported cases than all these studies are reporting. They are hiding the numbers stating that it cannot be proven the virus was contracted onboard so therefore it did not happen. If they had kept the middle row unoccupied like when some airlines here did on the restart and do all the promised maintenance of their air filtration system, they may have a point as most travel related cases are likely happening in airports and going through customs/security but now that they are trying to pack the planes again, we have zero social distancing so even with masks, the likelihood of catching covid19 is high. I work for the transportation industry for the record and we are fighting to resume full service but there are huge issues and the industry has to be more honest.

I, too live in Manitoba and I hear the information mentioning covid cases on commercial flights. It's been my impression that this is to inform people that if they have been on the mentioned flight they may have been in the presence of someone with covid 19. I don't think the information is that the case was contracted on the airplane.

Are you saying each of these announcements are of a case contracted on the mentioned flight?

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 22:55 (42 days ago) @ Altona Stu

That is the issue at the moment as most doctors/scientists are saying it is likely it was contracted on the plane and/or at the airport through contact with another infected person. Of course the airlines are saying it came from somewhere else. Looking at previous similar viruses and pandemic and the issues on our transportation system, be it cruise ships, passengers trains and planes, it is very likely several people are getting infected on them. The reality is too many carriers are asymptomatic and therefore can get on and infect others and the processes in place to protect you are not very efficient if you can't distance.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by ZihuaRx @, Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 23:37 (42 days ago) @ cd69

BUSINESS TRAVELLER (CNN)

The odds of catching Covid-19 on an airplane are slimmer than you think, scientists say

Came from CNN. Note sure where you got your "most" scientists report. I guess people who want to stay home should stay home. People who want to travel responsibly should travel responsibly.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by jay @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 00:12 (42 days ago) @ ZihuaRx
edited by jay, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 00:20

Sometimes I wonder if anyone read the article. It said that this study was commissioned by the US Military, and had nothing to do with the airlines. It said that the study reported nothing about airports or ground transportation. It said that smaller planes have similar ventilation, filtration, and circulation systems, so the overall risk should be about the same as the results from the bigger planes. It said that, given the circulation systems, aerosol transmissions appear to be very low and pose little risk, especially if everyone is wearing a mask. Now you may not want to believe any part of the study, but their methodology seems pretty thorough to me. I was reassured, and I was skeptical from the start. But I also happen to be in a high risk category, and I'm still not comfortable in a crushing airport environment.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 00:25 (42 days ago) @ jay

I can't comment on your case load in the US but I would doubt your airlines issues are different than ours and our health government agencies and our top epidemiologists have clearly stated this study and the ones from the airlines are not to be trusted. One issue just from what you posted is that there is a big difference when your plane load has 2100+ pax and a smaller one just 40. Just plain odds you will carry more infected people as you increase the odds. Deny as much as you want but here we have the case loads and the airlines are not looking pretty. Now I will not say this is all on them as there are serious issues in the airports but not having space on the planes to socially distance puts you at a greater risk. That is the opinion of our scientists and doctors. If you feel you are safer on US planes/airports, please fly away and good luck...

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Flights and Covid - Oh My

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 08:55 (41 days ago) @ cd69

I can't comment on your case load in the US but I would doubt your airlines issues are different than ours and our health government agencies and our top epidemiologists have clearly stated this study and the ones from the airlines are not to be trusted. One issue just from what you posted is that there is a big difference when your plane load has 2100+ pax and a smaller one just 40. Just plain odds you will carry more infected people as you increase the odds. Deny as much as you want but here we have the case loads and the airlines are not looking pretty. Now I will not say this is all on them as there are serious issues in the airports but not having space on the planes to socially distance puts you at a greater risk. That is the opinion of our scientists and doctors. If you feel you are safer on US planes/airports, please fly away and good luck...

This is a WORLDWIDE pandemia, not a Canadian one. Worldwide the airlines use the same type of air filtration systems. I also posted an article on this several weeks ago, but all I got was chastised for being cavalier and condescending. Well, excuse me Chicken Little, but there is a point where hysterics enters your equation and like now you deny the reports that don't coincide with your errant argument. If you are afraid to fly that's one thing, but you shouldn't be trying to pass on false arguments as facts, amigo.

Meanwhile, Mexico's president and his administration's public servants continue flying commercial class wherever they go. Not one has contracted Covid-19 from flying because they observe the established health safety protocols even though social distancing isn't always possible in the aircraft.
Saludos.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by ZihuaRx @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 13:06 (41 days ago) @ cd69

I quoted CNN for you because you sound a little left and Gord forbid that I found it from Fox. At least I didn't make it up. Still not sure where you are getting your info from. Didn't you on an earlier post mention the WHO was one of your "trusted" sources that was slamming people going on a plane.....did you just make that up? Hot off of todays press.

GENEVA, Oct 22 (Reuters) - The risk of COVID-19 spreading on flights appears "very low" but cannot be ruled out, despite studies showing only a small number of cases, the World Health Organization (WHO) said.
"In-flight transmission is possible but the risk appears to be very low, given the volume of travelers and the small number of case reports. The fact that transmission is not widely documented in the published literature does not, however, mean it does not happen," the WHO said in a statement to Reuters.
Here is another questionable one from you:
ours and our health government agencies and our top epidemiologists have clearly stated this study and the ones from the airlines are not to be trusted.
Really? Where have they said that? So they are going against the WHO's recommendations? I guess after your WHO statement I may need some proof. This virus is scary enough without people making up caca and spreading it.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by cd69 @, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 00:19 (42 days ago) @ ZihuaRx

Really? You are going to quote CNN and what they were talking about? No wonder you guys are in so much trouble lol Yes, I actually pay attention to real doctors/scientists using real data...

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by jay @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 00:24 (42 days ago) @ cd69

Clearly you didn't read the article I linked to. It was not taken from CNN, nor was CNN mentioned anywhere in the article. It was taken from the study itself, as well as interviews with two of its authors. Please pay attention.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by midalake @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 08:34 (41 days ago) @ jay

Clearly you didn't read the article I linked to. It was not taken from CNN, nor was CNN mentioned anywhere in the article. It was taken from the study itself, as well as interviews with two of its authors. Please pay attention.

I not only read the article but there film footage as well and I saw it on national news.

AGAIN, who fly's on a 777-767??????????? The lack of cubic air space and the same amount of bodies on a smaller plane WILL make a difference. BY DESIGN flying is an incorrect thing to do by CDC guidelines. PERIOD!

D

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by jay @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 13:49 (41 days ago) @ midalake

AGAIN, who fly's on a 777-767??????????? The lack of cubic air space and the same amount of bodies on a smaller plane WILL make a difference. BY DESIGN flying is an incorrect thing to do by CDC guidelines. PERIOD!

Lots of people fly on 767s and 777s every day, though usually not to Mexico. I think that's what you meant so point taken. But I am puzzled as to why you think ventilation/filtration systems in smaller commercial jets are less adequate than in larger planes. Wouldn't you think manufacturers, not to mention the FAA and the CDC, would insist on a uniform standard in all their products? Especially in the midst of a pandemic?

Note that I haven't encouraged or discouraged anyone from flying. Nor does the study. It only reports the numbers and calculates the risks. That means that would-be travelers can have a somewhat more informed opinion. I would think that's all you can ask.

Flights and Covid - Oh My

by jay @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 06:29 (42 days ago) @ cd69

Upon rereading it, it seems you were responding to ZihuaRx and not me. If I was too snarky I apologize.