Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 22:31 (40 days ago)

I wanted to somehow get into a body of water again while avoiding the exposure to the virus as much as possible. I enjoy "floating out in the water" which means first of all my not liking high rolling waves, so I needed a protected beach in a cove, which Zihua qualified. After watching months of beach live-cams it looked like there were plenty of areas on these beaches where there weren't many tourists, so I was convinced enough to drive here.

However after a few days on the beach and after walking significant distances to avoid the bus dump-out crowds and constantly relocating as the typical "bunching" happens when other bathers always seem to seek out others when they swim (and with my constantly moving as a reaction to that), I was hoping I could somehow totally avoid being near anyone thus experience little exposure to the virus. Yet I had not taken into account the boats motoring all the vendors who pull the para-sailors and banana boat and chair-boat riders that are tugged all over the bay while full of tourists that in the process inject their aerosols into my "upstream air supply".

So right about now I'm starting to wonder, even when I am in the water, actually how protected am I here? With the strong sea breeze, even in the water I get a strong whiff of exhaust fumes when these boats come speeding by as well as the easily detectable smell of the strong colones worn by men here. With the strong wind and even when I sit up next to the private property beach walls, I still smell the very strong smell of boat exhaust, men's colones and the smells of cigarettes from people who are in the water's edge smoking and are directly upwind from me. If their exhaled smoke is so strong in this stiff wind, isn't it the same as if I was at a bar right next to them? So the question is, even though I am in open air, how safe am I?

And while I have not as yet seen the expected share of "nasties" here, I am sure some are bound to say "well this is my home, you are a visitor and if you don't like it then leave" and to that I have to say, that may very well be the best solution but for those who came here thinking along the same lines as I did, it may very well be it is not as safe to come here as one might expect and in fact it may be that social distancing may have little effect when a strong wind is saturating one in others colones and cigarette smoke.

All I could find online regarding life of the virus in open air was here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.html

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 23:02 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

Here is more on the effect of sunlight on it:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32525979/

Looks like in simulated sunlight the virus level is down by 90% in 8 minutes but that's plenty of time for a strong wind to blow airborne particles from one to another, such as in an environment capable of transferring it via the sea-breeze from beachcombers to those relaxing on the beach.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by allen @, Pacific Northwest, Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 23:32 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

I am thinking that you should just stay home in a sealed room with HEPA filters.

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Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 08:33 (40 days ago) @ allen

I am thinking that you should just stay home in a sealed room with HEPA filters.

Oh, Allen. His thoughts are simply a little trippy. Something you should be able to identify with. Folks have been isolated for so long we're all getting a little trippy with our thoughts. Ease on up there, Hoss!

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by ZihuaRx @, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 08:42 (40 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Oops. Sorry. Well said.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by Ironwood @, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 12:55 (40 days ago) @ allen

I am thinking that you should just stay home in a sealed room with HEPA filters.

:megusta: All I can think of is Double Wow!

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by ZihuaRx @, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 08:41 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

You should probably just order a heat lamp off of Amazon.com

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by catlover, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 13:48 (40 days ago) @ ZihuaRx

:megusta:

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by D-Loco, Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 23:36 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

I'm no Dr. Fauci so I wont even attempt to give you a yes or no. However if that were the case my guess is the entire community would have been infected by now.

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Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by Timmac @, Steilacoom, WA, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 00:45 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

I would think the odds would be very low. Outdoor exposure risk is low. At least in Washington state most cases are from restaurants, bars and family gatherings. As long as you keep your distance from others the risk is quite low. Keep in mind the study that you linked is nearly a year old and name of the things they talk about are no longer thought to be significant risks. We have been anxiously awaiting the vaccine and will get our first dose on Friday. By early March it should be safe, not only for us, but should also lessen the chance we can transmit it to folks there.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by mindpilot, la Playa Buenavista, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 06:03 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

From what I've read, the COVID virus is not very hardy. It rides around in water droplets and once that droplet is dispersed the virus dies very quickly.

My semi-scientific guess: High winds would actually lessen your chances of contracting the virus. The turbulent air would tend to break up the droplets and the wind would quickly disperse and dilute any clusters of viral material.

So the basics, mask up, wash your hands, stay away from other people, and since we can do this here...stay outside as much as possible.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by Nancy in SGF, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 08:10 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

I think there is very little science supporting your worry. Between the wind and the humidity, I think the outdoor risk of exposure on or near the ocean is very small. It might be one thing if you were packed in tightly like we see in the Florida beaches, but in Zihua and the surrounding beaches, I see virtually little to no risk. However, these type decisions are personal and I don’t criticize any personal concerns people have. But for me, it’s why I’m still coming. Can’t wait to get out in the sun and humidity and I won’t be fearing exposure. I’ve actually never had anybody get very close to me on the beach in Zihua or the surrounding beaches.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 14:20 (40 days ago) @ Nancy in SGF

I felt comfortable as well until a couple of days ago when as an ex-smoker I got a full "hit" from what the guy 30' away was smoking and to simply reiterate, smelling all that cologne from guys so far away had me starting to wonder about my logic of how much distancing I was actually accomplishing as well.

To all those who responded with well thought out, and philosophical theories, I have to say thank you. It's nice to know that people who can think outside a small cracker box still exist in the world.

To all those who replied with the typical small-mindedness, tribalism and "love it or leave it" type mentality that we've all stomached since the 'Nam war era, well thank you all for setting me straight that just as many of you exist here in this community as the very best I've seen from the fine locations of San Miguel de Allende, Chapala and most of the other expat enclaves across Mexico, Central and South America that can all boast having an equal line of such deep thinkers.

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Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by Talley Ho @, Playa la Ropa, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 14:25 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

:wtf:

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 14:36 (40 days ago) @ Talley Ho

It's hard to communicate with people who post memes and moving GIF's but the jest here is how a virus may be more contagious in high wind than it is in a place of little or no wind. It was a call for ideas and more information on the subject. It was not a call for character judgements and bad-mouthing. Think in terms of philosophy. It's never too late to expand one's realm of thinking and it's only with inhibiting our natural need to pass judgement that we can gain any type of understanding of various aspects of science and life in general. Or in other words, unless you have something to add to the conversation other than about me personally, then I don't recall asking for opinions outside of actual research on the subject. My initial post with two references on research on the subject were actually calls for anyone else of similar curiosity and my wondering what their thoughts were on the subject. (Had I wanted a deep, base-less character evaluation, I would have asked someone a question on Facebook.)

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by 1945gypsy ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 14:45 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

Here's another NIH study on breezes and transmission. They conclude that 6 ft. is not nearly enough distance when there's a breeze. Whereas you would think breezes would dissipate the droplets, they can actually float them right over to you. All I can say is if somebody coughs, run. We all need all the information we can get:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7233256/

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Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by frostbite ⌂ @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 15:35 (40 days ago) @ 1945gypsy

If someone coughs or sneezes near you, move upwind.

--
[image]
Casa Amarilla Vacation Rental
http://www.casaamarillazihua.com/

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 17:18 (40 days ago) @ frostbite

No charge for the entertainment aspect, by the way - I realize it's hard to find these days. Nevertheless he who laughs last has the .... or what is the one Karma's a bxxxxx but I'm sure you old sea-dogs have heard them all ;-) ...

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by D-Loco, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 17:30 (40 days ago) @ frostbite

If someone coughs or sneezes near you, move upwind.

Or only exhale and close your eyes.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by catlover, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 18:10 (40 days ago) @ FotoNut

Want some cheese with that whine?

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 18:41 (39 days ago) @ catlover

Note - for all of you curious in the future and who land here while seeking insight about this and other locations while searching social media for rave reviews on "moving to Mexico" and with that, believing how glorious it's going to be - I've told many of you before that this is what you end up with .... you buy a house or get into a tight rental contract with a big deposit and a year's rent invested and end up hopelessly trapped in a Gringo enclave like this where more than half are pretty much drunk by noon and even with the majority of sober ones, this is the mental state you are forced to deal with if you are desiring any type of social interaction ...

So you must be ready and willing to exist in a social environment somewhere between the ranks of the intoxicated challenging each other at a cruise ship shuffleboard match and a nursing home "who's stealing my chair on bingo night". Be forewarned! And that's only "senior class" from the US. Junior class Canada didn't even show up this year but they come with sometimes an even further regression.

But in all seriousness I do like to kid the Gringos don't you know. My comments of course discount the four or so fine people here who actually provided intelligent conversation. In fairness these few level headed folks who spoke up still will not be enough to bail anyone out of the doldrums once they move here and too late, discover the actual gravity of what their new social aspects consist of.

As a full-time traveler here in Mexico and Central America for going on nearly two decades, let me say to anyone who might consider moving to one of these Gringo enclaves, Chapala to Patagonia, that this is the very best you can expect. The only real solution for anyone seeking both happiness and a new rewarding life in Latin America is to learn Spanish and meld into the actual Latin community, tossing your own background and heritage to the side. Otherwise don't make the same mistake that I have and come around looking for anything other than what's been displayed here.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by Ironwood @, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 19:02 (39 days ago) @ FotoNut

Sounds to me like you have much bigger problems than airborne aerosols in high winds. Pity that you apparently learned nothing from all that Latin American travelling, getting caught moving into yet another "gringo enclave".

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by FotoNut, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 20:10 (39 days ago) @ Ironwood

That's what "sound" will do for one. One actually has to look beyond the mere sound created by the vibration from a strong hot-wind beating against a stationary object to discover the true energy source, as well as look deeper than the surface often to see what's in the water. Yet I regress as well as further waste my time. Both the foolish and the scholars among the batch of collective wisdom here I believe have both already stated their case. Which ends up being which will be left to the judgement of history and with that, I bid a pleasant evening to you all.

Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by D-Loco, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 19:56 (39 days ago) @ FotoNut

I'm just happy to be one of the four fine people.

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Covid exposure level from airborne aerosols in high wind?

by mosesk @, Ojai, CA, USA, Thursday, January 21, 2021, 22:41 (39 days ago) @ D-Loco

I'm just happy to be one of the four fine people.

I'm trying hard to be the 5th...well, maybe not THAT hard...yes, a lovely bunch of bananas...