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EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, September 22, 2022, 21:29 (11 days ago)


https://youtu.be/cUgsp3GJKH0

Health officials for Guerrero report there are currently 2 confirmed currently active cases of Covid-19 in Zihuatanejo. NO cases for La Unión, Petatlán or Técpan, 20 in Acapulco, and 59 for the entire state.

The upside to the local Oxxos being closed is that people are shopping at our locally owned stores. So while it remains worrisome that federal authorities had to take over our municipal police and that local businesses continue being extorted by criminals our local government seems incapable of dealing with or stopping, at least some hard-working locals are seeing more business while almost every other local business is seeing less.

Now is the time to see turtles nesting and hatching. If this interests you, then I highly recommend Casa de La Tortuga at Playa Blanca. A 2-BR apartment with a pool. Guests can participate in the release of baby sea turtles because the apartment is used to raise funds for the Campamento Tortuguero Ayotlcalli located on the same property.
Zihuatanejo Vacation Rentals

¡Cuidemos nuestro patrimonio!
#NoQueremosMuelleParaCruceros
#NoBlueFlagEnNuestrasPlayas
#PreservemosPlayaManzanillo

The start of another picture postcard perfect day in our paradise.
[image]

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EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by hromero ⌂ @, Friday, September 23, 2022, 15:19 (10 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Beautiful picture!

I am curious to know from your perspective what role the local government is supposed to play in local security. I have heard conflicting stories about which agencies are responsible for law enforcement. In one version I have heard that the local "police" force's only role since approximately 2018 has been for traffic enforcement and beach rule enforcement via "la policía turística". This happened as a result of the federal government removing a large majority of the local police who were not properly certified which resulted in the federal government taking over local law enforcement and has not been stopped. However, I also recently read that the marines took control of local enforcement. Additionally I have heard that local government has paid for barracks and vehicles for the national guard and military so that they could assist with security. I can find no documents that officially clarify this topic.

It is frustrating and unsettling that so many different businesses and services appear to have to shut down to avoid extorsion or bodily harm when we have countless people riding around in vehicles with guns. Where is the initiative to improve the justice system and investigative policing that will help catch and detain these criminals who are terrorizing our community? We are paying lots of taxes and it seems that no level of government is taking responsibility for a situation that seems to be only getting worse. It breaks my heart.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by midalake @, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:00 (10 days ago) @ hromero

Beautiful picture!

I am curious to know from your perspective what role the local government is supposed to play in local security. I have heard conflicting stories about which agencies are responsible for law enforcement. In one version I have heard that the local "police" force's only role since approximately 2018 has been for traffic enforcement and beach rule enforcement via "la policía turística". This happened as a result of the federal government removing a large majority of the local police who were not properly certified which resulted in the federal government taking over local law enforcement and has not been stopped. However, I also recently read that the marines took control of local enforcement. Additionally I have heard that local government has paid for barracks and vehicles for the national guard and military so that they could assist with security. I can find no documents that officially clarify this topic.

It is frustrating and unsettling that so many different businesses and services appear to have to shut down to avoid extorsion or bodily harm when we have countless people riding around in vehicles with guns. Where is the initiative to improve the justice system and investigative policing that will help catch and detain these criminals who are terrorizing our community? We are paying lots of taxes and it seems that no level of government is taking responsibility for a situation that seems to be only getting worse. It breaks my heart.

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>

EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by Padrino ⌂ @, San Diego/Rosarito, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:14 (10 days ago) @ midalake

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>

So are you advocating extra-judicial executions? Would this be administered by a non-governmental vigilante organization?

Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits.

EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by midalake @, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:22 (10 days ago) @ Padrino

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>


So are you advocating extra-judicial executions? Would this be administered by a non-governmental vigilante organization?

> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits.

"> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits."

NO IT DOES NOT>>>The scum of the earth just moves on to something else.

Killing them by> Bullet in the head or prison for life. Is there a difference?

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EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:57 (10 days ago) @ midalake

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>


So are you advocating extra-judicial executions? Would this be administered by a non-governmental vigilante organization?

> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits.

"> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits."

NO IT DOES NOT>>>The scum of the earth just moves on to something else.

Killing them by> Bullet in the head or prison for life. Is there a difference?

Dave, that really is a stupid reply. People deal in banned substances because there is a multi-billion dollar a year market for it created by stupid laws in the USA and Mexico. And the violence generated by that market causes people to flee their communities, giving rise to the major reason human trafficking even exists at the U.S. border apart from the decades-long broken immigration system. Killing someone only guarantees more violence, gets more innocent people killed, and foments less restraint on the part of organized criminals. Just a couple of decades ago our cartels were led by people who were practically gentlemen compared to the people running them today. Your "solution" only gets more innocent people killed and run out of their communities.

EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by midalake @, Friday, September 23, 2022, 20:11 (10 days ago) @ ZihuaRob
edited by midalake, Friday, September 23, 2022, 20:47

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>


So are you advocating extra-judicial executions? Would this be administered by a non-governmental vigilante organization?

> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits.

"> Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits."

NO IT DOES NOT>>>The scum of the earth just moves on to something else.

Killing them by> Bullet in the head or prison for life. Is there a difference?


Dave, that really is a stupid reply. People deal in banned substances because there is a multi-billion dollar a year market for it created by stupid laws in the USA and Mexico. And the violence generated by that market causes people to flee their communities, giving rise to the major reason human trafficking even exists at the U.S. border apart from the decades-long broken immigration system. Killing someone only guarantees more violence, gets more innocent people killed, and foments less restraint on the part of organized criminals. Just a couple of decades ago our cartels were led by people who were practically gentlemen compared to the people running them today. Your "solution" only gets more innocent people killed and run out of their communities.

I AM NOT DEBATING LAWS! NEVER HAVE!

The scum of the earth just move on to something else REGARDLESS of LAWS.

I have watched it happen for THREE DECADES!

DOING THE SAME THING GIVES THE SAME RESULTS!

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EquinocZIHo Otoñal

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:50 (10 days ago) @ Padrino

I don't know how many times I have said this, but here it is one more time.

I think governments lets these cartel types deal in drugs because if they took it away, it would be open season on everything else.
Even MORE: Extortion, human trafficking, kidnaping and whatever the scum of the earth can come up with to "F" with everyone else.

THIS is why I say you have to kill them ALL!

CARRY ON>


So are you advocating extra-judicial executions? Would this be administered by a non-governmental vigilante organization?

Removing the profit motive by making recreational pharmaceuticals legal would not end other forms of crime but it sure would take a huge bite out of their outsized profits.

EXACTLY! But there will be a point of no return. Think of how long it took the U.S. government to deal with the mafias that arose because of Prohibition 1.0, which only lasted how long, 13 years? Then extrapolate that into a mafia that has been allowed to operate for much much longer and with much higher profits. For the USA the status quo is a WIN-WIN. They make billions selling firearms to criminals AND they get the stupidly banned drugs they want with lots of palms greased along the way. Their "war on drugs" shifted to Mexico and other nations after the 70's when the dead bodies were piling up on U.S. streets and shown daily on U.S. news, hurting the images of politicians.

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Growing Incompetency of the Police

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, September 23, 2022, 19:43 (10 days ago) @ hromero

Beautiful picture!

I am curious to know from your perspective what role the local government is supposed to play in local security. I have heard conflicting stories about which agencies are responsible for law enforcement. In one version I have heard that the local "police" force's only role since approximately 2018 has been for traffic enforcement and beach rule enforcement via "la policía turística". This happened as a result of the federal government removing a large majority of the local police who were not properly certified which resulted in the federal government taking over local law enforcement and has not been stopped. However, I also recently read that the marines took control of local enforcement. Additionally I have heard that local government has paid for barracks and vehicles for the national guard and military so that they could assist with security. I can find no documents that officially clarify this topic.

It is frustrating and unsettling that so many different businesses and services appear to have to shut down to avoid extorsion or bodily harm when we have countless people riding around in vehicles with guns. Where is the initiative to improve the justice system and investigative policing that will help catch and detain these criminals who are terrorizing our community? We are paying lots of taxes and it seems that no level of government is taking responsibility for a situation that seems to be only getting worse. It breaks my heart.

Art. 21 of the Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos establishes the following:
La seguridad pública es una función del Estado a cargo de la Federación, las entidades federativas y los Municipios, cuyos fines son salvaguardar la vida, las libertades, la integridad y el patrimonio de las personas, así como contribuir a la generación y preservación del orden público y la paz social, de conformidad con lo previsto en esta Constitución y las leyes en la materia. La seguridad pública comprende la prevención, investigación y persecución de los delitos, así como la sanción de las infracciones administrativas, en los términos de la ley, en las respectivas competencias que esta Constitución señala.

Art. 115 establishes that:
La policía preventiva estará al mando del presidente municipal en los términos de la Ley de Seguridad Pública del Estado. Aquélla acatará las órdenes que el Gobernador del Estado le transmita

Art. 171 of the Constitución Política del Estado Libre y Soberano de Guerrero establishes:
La seguridad pública estará a cargo de una policía preventiva bajo el mando del Presidente Municipal en los términos de la ley estatal correspondiente, con excepción de los convenios celebrados en la materia con los gobiernos Federal y Estatal. La policía acatará las órdenes que el Gobernador del Estado le transmita en los casos que juzgue como de fuerza mayor o alteración grave del orden público.

The Bando de Policía y Buen Gobierno spells out the role of local law enforcement, but as we all know, due to the intentional lack of professionalizing the municipal police forces, their main role has been mostly as a criminal element with badges over the years. Exactly as they are still perceived by a majority of the public.

So even getting down to what laws they are supposed to enforce, everything deteriorates into massive confusion, and the most common excuse used by local authorities is that it's not their job to deal with criminal gangs that operate across municipal or state lines, which is obviously simply a cop out. This is why the rate of any type of punishment for any criminal in the state of Guerrero is less than one percent. Over 99% of all crimes simply go unpunished. Forget solving crimes.

Unfortunately, the local government has washed their hands of using the police for their intended purpose. For too many decades they haven't required the police to be professional, which is why we have many of the problems we do locally and nationwide, and if it weren't for the requirements necessary to possess a firearm for public security local police would have almost no requirements for their job.

The federal government has had to step in due to the gross negligence of municipal governments. The original Policía Federal were a failure. The Guardia Nacional are not local police, and by the time they familiarize themselves with a locality and gather enough intelligence to have a simple idea of what's going on, they're already behind the curve and at a huge disadvantage. The reality has been that they're mostly for show. And of course they get called away frequently to deal with problems elsewhere, so we can't even count on their continued presence or full attention.

A city like Zihuatanejo MUST be able to rely on a LOCAL police force, but mayor after mayor has simply proven themselves incapable of taking public security as seriously as it needs to be taken. Thus public insecurity remains a principal and growing complaint among the citizenry here and across the nation year after year decade after decade. While our so-called elected representatives in our Congreso de la Unión debate who should be in charge of the Guardia Nacional, SEDENA or a civilian institution, many locals in this part of the state want the military to remain in our streets. We know we can't count on our local police. The problem of organized crime funded by the ever-growing demand for stupidly banned substances continues spiraling out of control and the criminals only become wealthier, better organized, better supplied with arms and technology, and more entrenched. And apparently the government at every level only becomes more inept and incapable of dealing with them. #PobrePueblo #MerecemosMejor

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Growing Incompetency of the Police

by hromero ⌂ @, Sunday, September 25, 2022, 10:49 (8 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Gracias! I appreciate you laying out your understanding of how the security apparatus is supposed to work and how it is actually working. It seems that the laws are intentionally vague so as to provide cover for any politician who wants to avoid responsibility for security.

While I understand the desire to keep the military present in our community I can't help but wonder if that desire isn't mostly fueled by the idea that our political leaders suggest which is that the only other alternative is to have no security at all. Time and again around the world and throughout history we see despots take power and remove freedoms from the citizenry by lionizing the military and claiming that only they at the head of a strong military can intervene successfully to provide security. While to the contrary the places that are often rated as being the most happy and safe are those places that are regulated by local, independent and professional police forces. None are perfect but I think we can all see that there are better solutions than having the military, who have little or no training in successful law enforcement tactics, riding around with minimal interaction with the citizens they are supposed to be protecting. As we have seen in cases like the 43 disappeared students in Ayotzinapa, even the military is not immune to corruption and bad actors within the military also benefit from weak judicial and law enforcement organizations.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

Growing Incompetency of the Police

by Ironwood @, Sunday, September 25, 2022, 12:14 (8 days ago) @ hromero

Gracias! I appreciate you laying out your understanding of how the security apparatus is supposed to work and how it is actually working. It seems that the laws are intentionally vague so as to provide cover for any politician who wants to avoid responsibility for security.

While I understand the desire to keep the military present in our community I can't help but wonder if that desire isn't mostly fueled by the idea that our political leaders suggest which is that the only other alternative is to have no security at all. Time and again around the world and throughout history we see despots take power and remove freedoms from the citizenry by lionizing the military and claiming that only they at the head of a strong military can intervene successfully to provide security. While to the contrary the places that are often rated as being the most happy and safe are those places that are regulated by local, independent and professional police forces. None are perfect but I think we can all see that there are better solutions than having the military, who have little or no training in successful law enforcement tactics, riding around with minimal interaction with the citizens they are supposed to be protecting. As we have seen in cases like the 43 disappeared students in Ayotzinapa, even the military is not immune to corruption and bad actors within the military also benefit from weak judicial and law enforcement organizations.

In a relatively small city like Zihua, there must be many residents who know the identity of those running the local "protection"/extortion racket. A competent police force would at least attempt to interfere with the criminal operations.....if there was a police force. Municipal police riding around in the back of a pick-up truck, or troops riding around in larger trucks, or manning pick-up truck-mounted machine guns don't accomplish anything.

(I realize that corruption within municipal administrations and local police forces, state and Federal governments.....and even within the armed forces itself....makes effective law enforcement almost impossible. Pretty grim picture.)

Avatar

Growing Incompetency of the Police

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, September 25, 2022, 19:22 (8 days ago) @ hromero

Gracias! I appreciate you laying out your understanding of how the security apparatus is supposed to work and how it is actually working. It seems that the laws are intentionally vague so as to provide cover for any politician who wants to avoid responsibility for security.

While I understand the desire to keep the military present in our community I can't help but wonder if that desire isn't mostly fueled by the idea that our political leaders suggest which is that the only other alternative is to have no security at all. Time and again around the world and throughout history we see despots take power and remove freedoms from the citizenry by lionizing the military and claiming that only they at the head of a strong military can intervene successfully to provide security. While to the contrary the places that are often rated as being the most happy and safe are those places that are regulated by local, independent and professional police forces. None are perfect but I think we can all see that there are better solutions than having the military, who have little or no training in successful law enforcement tactics, riding around with minimal interaction with the citizens they are supposed to be protecting. As we have seen in cases like the 43 disappeared students in Ayotzinapa, even the military is not immune to corruption and bad actors within the military also benefit from weak judicial and law enforcement organizations.

While Guerrero is the state most responsible for there being an independent and democratic republic of Mexico, during the past century La Guerra Sucia left a scar like a hot branding iron upon the Guerrerense society, so for so many people hardened by a difficult life and a turbulent past to want the military patrolling their streets speaks volumes to the magnitude of the problem.

¿Plata o Plomo? is the most basic law here, and public servants are no different than the citizens when it comes to this stone-cold reality.

Our local police are practically worthless due to their lack of professionalization compounded with the manner in which laws are written, i.e. so that they are nearly impossible to enforce (thanks to over 7 decades of total domination by the PRI), resulting in too many instances where the police don't know what the laws are. They just do what they're told. Yes, there are many excellent people serving as police. But more importantly, we should be thankful to live in a place where people are so decent that police aren't as needed as they would be in almost any similar-sized city in many other places on this planet where stores would be looted and gangs would roam wild in the streets with such ineffective police as we have. So there's that.

Since El Congreso de la Unión seems to be stumbling on the matter, Presidente López Obrador has proposed a plebiscite on whether the public (1) approves of the work so far by the Guardia Nacional, (2) wants the military to continue providing public security until 2028 or to return to their barracks in 2024, and (3) wants the Guardia Nacional to be part of SEDENA, Gobernación or Seguridad Pública (the first being the military and the latter two being civilian institutions).

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Growing Incompetency of the Police

by hromero ⌂ @, Monday, September 26, 2022, 12:47 (7 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Too bad the president isn't also proposing a plebiscite to reform the judiciary. Hopefully he proposes using the established electoral system to run his plebiscite.

--
Humberto Romero
www.casaarcoiriszihuatanejo.com

Growing Incompetency of the Police

by Ironwood @, Monday, September 26, 2022, 01:01 (7 days ago) @ hromero

Gracias! I appreciate you laying out your understanding of how the security apparatus is supposed to work and how it is actually working. It seems that the laws are intentionally vague so as to provide cover for any politician who wants to avoid responsibility for security.

While I understand the desire to keep the military present in our community I can't help but wonder if that desire isn't mostly fueled by the idea that our political leaders suggest which is that the only other alternative is to have no security at all. Time and again around the world and throughout history we see despots take power and remove freedoms from the citizenry by lionizing the military and claiming that only they at the head of a strong military can intervene successfully to provide security. While to the contrary the places that are often rated as being the most happy and safe are those places that are regulated by local, independent and professional police forces. None are perfect but I think we can all see that there are better solutions than having the military, who have little or no training in successful law enforcement tactics, riding around with minimal interaction with the citizens they are supposed to be protecting. As we have seen in cases like the 43 disappeared students in Ayotzinapa, even the military is not immune to corruption and bad actors within the military also benefit from weak judicial and law enforcement organizations.

In a relatively small city like Zihua, there must be many residents who know the identity of those running the local "protection"/extortion racket. A competent police force would at least attempt to interfere with the criminal operations.....if there was a police force. Municipal police riding around in the back of a pick-up truck, or troops riding around in larger trucks, or manning pick-up truck-mounted machine guns don't accomplish anything.

(I realize that corruption within municipal administrations and local police forces, state and Federal governments.....and even within the armed forces itself....makes effective law enforcement almost impossible. Pretty grim picture.)