Militarized Immigration

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Wednesday, August 16, 2023, 07:51 (1182 days ago)

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?

Militarized Immigration

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Wednesday, August 16, 2023, 08:11 (1182 days ago) @ mindpilot

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?

Mandatory military service?

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Wednesday, August 16, 2023, 08:24 (1182 days ago) @ mindpilot

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?

:rollingonthefloorlaughing: It means when you go to their offices you'll have to stand BEHIND the line and state your business to the flunkie who will relay your words to a superior who will respond to the flunkie who will respond to you. If you served in the military it should be a nostalgic experience.

Militarized Immigration

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Wednesday, August 16, 2023, 08:30 (1182 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?


:rollingonthefloorlaughing: It means when you go to their offices you'll have to stand BEHIND the line and state your business to the flunkie who will relay your words to a superior who will respond to the flunkie who will respond to you. If you served in the military it should be a nostalgic experience.

Already get that on the US side with TSA...

Militarized Immigration

by midalake @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 06:50 (1181 days ago) @ mindpilot

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?

This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.

More government control was issued to both CFE and Pemex with no regard to privatization of oil and electric.

Also has delcared the Airport in Mexico City is now under military control. By the Way> We just flew through MEX two days ago and the increased presence of Military uniforms in the airport was greatly increased.

How about government airlines? If you missed it, the government has bought the rights to Mexicana Airlines. Which will be run by the military.

I fear for Mexico right now!!!!!! Too bad this president cannot keep his citizens safe.

Militarized Immigration

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 07:52 (1181 days ago) @ midalake

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?


This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.

More government control was issued to both CFE and Pemex with no regard to privatization of oil and electric.

Also has delcared the Airport in Mexico City is now under military control. By the Way> We just flew through MEX two days ago and the increased presence of Military uniforms in the airport was greatly increased.

How about government airlines? If you missed it, the government has bought the rights to Mexicana Airlines. Which will be run by the military.

I fear for Mexico right now!!!!!! Too bad this president cannot keep his citizens safe.

He has become an agent of chaos, that's for sure. Unfortunately, that seems to be trending in many places around the world because a lot of people want a strongman leader and are disturbingly cool with authoritarianism.

Militarized Immigration

by Little Guy @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 10:15 (1181 days ago) @ midalake

This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.

Do you not look at the news in your own country?

In the face of 91 criminal charges, based on four independent grand juries, Donald Trump publicly threatens,

“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU."

Now that is scary.

Militarized Immigration

by midalake @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 12:42 (1181 days ago) @ Little Guy

This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.


Do you not look at the news in your own country?

In the face of 91 criminal charges, based on four independent grand juries, Donald Trump publicly threatens,

“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU."

Now that is scary.

Lets not confuse crimes against a constitution the same to chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge.

Militarized Immigration

by Little Guy @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 15:32 (1181 days ago) @ midalake

This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.


Do you not look at the news in your own country?

In the face of 91 criminal charges, based on four independent grand juries, Donald Trump publicly threatens,

“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU."

Now that is scary.


Lets not confuse crimes against a constitution the same to chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge.

You are saying the Mexican president is the scariest thing you have ever seen. Now you are describing, “chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge”.

Perhaps you can give us examples of the Mexican president, “chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge”.

Militarized Immigration

by midalake @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 15:44 (1180 days ago) @ Little Guy

This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.


Do you not look at the news in your own country?

In the face of 91 criminal charges, based on four independent grand juries, Donald Trump publicly threatens,

“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU."

Now that is scary.


Lets not confuse crimes against a constitution the same to chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge.


You are saying the Mexican president is the scariest thing you have ever seen. Now you are describing, “chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge”.

Perhaps you can give us examples of the Mexican president, “chopping people into pieces or hanging them from a bridge”.

Reading skills are so important.
I simply stated that this Mexican president has failed to keep his citizens safe. There is more crime, murder, and chaos. If he concentrated more on the people of Mexico RATHER than Government control of everything maybe there would not be that many people being chopped into pieces and hung from bridges.

I do not care what your whataboutism is for, or for in America.

Militarized Immigration

by jay @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 16:34 (1180 days ago) @ midalake
edited by jay, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 16:57

I simply stated that this Mexican president has failed to keep his citizens safe. There is more crime, murder, and chaos. If he concentrated more on the people of Mexico RATHER than Government control of everything maybe there would not be that many people being chopped into pieces and hung from bridges.

Actually from what I understand crime and murders are down somewhat but whatevs.

Even if what you say is true I'm puzzled as to what AMLO shouid do. Various presidents have tried various strategies to combat this problem: A get-tough militarized policy - that didn't work. A laissez-faire, live-and-let-live policy - that didn't work. A hybrid strategy and that didn't work either. The truth is that the cartels have more resources and firepower than the government has, and that disparity will remain as long as US thinking remains somewhere in the Cretaceous Era, thus guaranteeing that stratospheric drug profits, and cartel criminal behavior, will continue on unimpeded. The cartels and the US government have a kind of symbiotic relationship that way. US military intervention might work, temporarily, but Mexicans are understandably leery of US intentions, and will make the calculation that an intervention would be worse, and probably much worse, than the cartels themselves.

Easy to make accusations. Much harder to actually come up with a workable solution.

Militarized Immigration

by Little Guy @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 20:48 (1180 days ago) @ midalake

Reading skills are so important.

Writing skills are more important.

I simply stated that this Mexican president has failed to keep his citizens safe.

That is not at all what you did. You stated that the Mexican president is the scariest thing you have ever seen, then you went on a multi-sentence rant about socialism. Then as a loose thought, unrelated to any previous comment in the posting, you said that the president can’t keep his people safe.

I do not care what your whataboutism is for, or for in America.


I understand why you would not want to discuss the record of the failed former president of the USA. Was he responsible for the tens of thousands of killings in the USA during his four years of failures?

100,000+ Americans Have Been Killed by Gun Violence Since Trump Took Office

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 11:23 (1181 days ago) @ midalake

Reported yesterday, AMLO is handing control of the INM to the military.

What do you think that will mean for us ex-pats and tourists?


This Mexican president is the scariest thing I have ever seen. The socialistic controls mimic Venezuela.

More government control was issued to both CFE and Pemex with no regard to privatization of oil and electric.

Also has delcared the Airport in Mexico City is now under military control. By the Way> We just flew through MEX two days ago and the increased presence of Military uniforms in the airport was greatly increased.

How about government airlines? If you missed it, the government has bought the rights to Mexicana Airlines. Which will be run by the military.

I fear for Mexico right now!!!!!! Too bad this president cannot keep his citizens safe.

I fear you don't know what socialism is. Venezuela is a purely corrupt dictatorship. Nothing to do with socialism though it pretends to have a democracy. Venezuela's economy is long-failed and worsening though it contains more oil and gold than any other country on the planet, which of course its corrupt leadership, including the military, is intent on plundering.

The people of Mexico still remember when U.S. and other foreign companies plundered Mexico and acted like Mexicans were insects to be crushed (not to mention 3 military invasions by the USA along with direct intervention in other violent episodes including assassinations of political and social leaders and a huge amount of blame for an unfinished and unsuccessful revolution, to be left for another discussion), so excuse us if there is no desire to see foreigners involved in Mexico's energy production, especially the USA, and no desire to see greed be the dominant factor in the production, pricing and distribution of energy. You may not see anything wrong with it since the USA has plundered nation after nation for its resources while mostly hiding the terrible truths of the consequences for the affected nations, most who remain impoverished and still living under fear of violence, but Mexico sees things from a different perspective. Most Mexicans want their energy production to remain nationalized.

I believe most Mexicans are quite content to see the military removing corruption from various aspects of airport operations. I know I am. We've paid too high a price for too long to corruption. Finally, a campaign promise to combat corruption is being kept, not just paid lip service.

And yes, the government resurrected Mexicana de Aviación from the ashes of financial ruin brought about by corruption. I believe most Mexicans see this as a positive development.

The fact that the three major political parties that tried to impose a partidocracy during the past couple of decades, PRI, PRD & PAN, have joined ranks nationally to compete against Morena should tell you all you need to know about what's going on. Corrupt entities are not giving up quietly nor without a fight. But their blatant and flagrant hypocrisy has made them easier than ever to identify.

The future depends on a mix of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism has failed the planet miserably. Mexico is taking a new path.

The violence generated by over half a century of the USA's prohibition of popular recreational substances is a failing of the policy itself, one imposed first by the USA. While both countries make progressive noises in this aspect, neither has done what needs doing to remove the main source of revenue for organized criminals who sell the substances in the USA and also buy the weapons they need in the USA that they have been able to smuggle back into Mexico seemingly effortlessly. All those stupidly banned substances need to be legalized. The reason you're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths from fentanyl and meth in the USA is because it doesn't come packaged in safe doses of known quality and quantity but rather that is all left to criminals who couldn't care less if people die as long as they make a buck. Legalize it and it removes the main source of income for organized criminals and levels the playing field so that police can tackle crimes such as human trafficking, extortion, corruption, and crimes against the planet.

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by frostbite @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 12:00 (1181 days ago) @ ZihuaRob


The future depends on a mix of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism has failed the planet miserably. Mexico is taking a new path.

Amen! That's how things woeked in Western Europe, when I lived there 60 years ago. They also had free medical care for everybody. God forbid we should learn anything from them!


The violence generated by over half a century of the USA's prohibition of popular recreational substances is a failing of the policy itself, one imposed first by the USA. While both countries make progressive noises in this aspect, neither has done what needs doing to remove the main source of revenue for organized criminals who sell the substances in the USA and also buy the weapons they need in the USA that they have been able to smuggle back into Mexico seemingly effortlessly. All those stupidly banned substances need to be legalized. The reason you're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths from fentanyl and meth in the USA is because it doesn't come packaged in safe doses of known quality and quantity but rather that is all left to criminals who couldn't care less if people die as long as they make a buck. Legalize it and it removes the main source of income for organized criminals and levels the playing field so that police can tackle crimes such as human trafficking, extortion, corruption, and crimes against the planet.

While I'm all for legalizing recreational drugs, if it happens, I suspect that the gangs would just find other criminal activity to engage in, rather than looking for regular jobs.

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 12:19 (1181 days ago) @ frostbite


The future depends on a mix of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism has failed the planet miserably. Mexico is taking a new path.


Amen! That's how things woeked in Western Europe, when I lived there 60 years ago. They also had free medical care for everybody. God forbid we should learn anything from them!


The violence generated by over half a century of the USA's prohibition of popular recreational substances is a failing of the policy itself, one imposed first by the USA. While both countries make progressive noises in this aspect, neither has done what needs doing to remove the main source of revenue for organized criminals who sell the substances in the USA and also buy the weapons they need in the USA that they have been able to smuggle back into Mexico seemingly effortlessly. All those stupidly banned substances need to be legalized. The reason you're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths from fentanyl and meth in the USA is because it doesn't come packaged in safe doses of known quality and quantity but rather that is all left to criminals who couldn't care less if people die as long as they make a buck. Legalize it and it removes the main source of income for organized criminals and levels the playing field so that police can tackle crimes such as human trafficking, extortion, corruption, and crimes against the planet.


While I'm all for legalizing recreational drugs, if it happens, I suspect that the gangs would just find other criminal activity to engage in, rather than looking for regular jobs.

But they won't have a solid customer base of over 50 million clients (in the USA alone). That's why I say that legalization levels the playing field so that cops can spend their time and resources dealing with real crimes.

Militarized Immigration

by Sun Seeker, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 17:11 (1180 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Agreed!

Militarized Immigration

by midalake @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 12:40 (1181 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed.

I do not want to redefine Socialism today. This definition will do!

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 18:10 (1180 days ago) @ midalake

socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed.

I do not want to redefine Socialism today. This definition will do!

Your definition simply underscores that you don't know what socialism is or how it's practiced in the real world. But if you're so against it then be consistent and refuse your SOCIAL Security payments, stop using PUBLIC roads, PUBLIC parks and all PUBLIC services. Personally I prefer socialism blended with MORALLY ETHICAL capitalism.

No one is coming for my property in Mexico. And I'm glad to see socialistic practices reducing poverty in Mexico.

Natural resources should all be socialized, unless you want to start paying for the air you breathe, the sunlight that illuminates your days and the breeze that refreshes you. Under the USA's current form of capitalism most of the world's resources are WASTED so that Joe Blow can have a miniaturized boombox (made with rare earths) and drink flavored sugar-water from plastic bottles (that poison the air, land and sea forever and ruin Joe's health so that he takes up space and resources in a medical facility that someone who's been more careful with their health may need). There's such a thing as too many varieties of a product so that it simply becomes a wasteful endeavor to produce it. I mean, how many brands of toilet paper do we really need, all wrapped in disposable colorful plastic? Current capitalism will kill the last of every species because it can fetch a price some rich asshole will pay. Current capitalism will continue concentrating more wealth into the hands of fewer people. It's a broken system we can no longer afford and it's literally destroying the planet. The USA's healthcare system is a prime example of broken capitalism.

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by frostbite @, Hamilton MT, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 18:33 (1180 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

:megusta:

Militarized Immigration

by midalake @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 20:57 (1180 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I mean, how many brands of toilet paper do we really need, all wrapped in disposable colorful plastic? Current capitalism will kill the last of every species because it can fetch a price some rich asshole will pay. Current capitalism will continue concentrating more wealth into the hands of fewer people.

Might it be possible that even you know one has lost the conversation when toilet paper somehow makes a point?

All I know>
Gas now costs me $5.41 a gallon [usd] and my electric bill is about 3 times more than in the USA. All brought to me by the socialists of Mexico.

Good thing the Mexican Gobermint does not have control of tomato production.

Guessing you will include another response about toilet paper. RATHER THAN how the Mexican Gobermint represses its own people financially by killing competition and free markets.

Militarized Immigration

by Little Guy @, Thursday, August 17, 2023, 23:28 (1180 days ago) @ midalake

All I know>
Gas now costs me $5.41 a gallon [usd] and my electric bill is about 3 times more than in the USA. All brought to me by the socialists of Mexico.

Now we know the extent, and limited nature, of what you know.

Good thing the Mexican Gobermint does not have control of tomato production.

Guessing you will include another response about toilet paper. RATHER THAN how the Mexican Gobermint represses its own people financially by killing competition and free markets.

I’m not about to defend the poor quality of service I have experienced from CFE, but I don’t believe that is a function of government ownership. I live part-time in British Columbia, Canada, a place that you may well consider the be a hell-hole of socialism.

Our electric system is owned and operated by the provincial government. We are just north of Washington state. Our government-owned and operated ferry system is much more extensive than that of Washington State. Americans marvel at how well-developed our ferry system is. It’s only recent significant problems occurred when a right-wing government tried to operate it as a private business and installed an American as president. He ran it into the ground until “choosing early retirement’.

By the way, both of the ferry system and the electric grid were privately-owned and were “nationalized” by a right-wing government in the 1950s. No government has dared to return to the bad-old-days of private ownership of these important public utilities.

Vehicle insurance is mandatory and is provided exclusively by the government owned and operated insurance corporation.

I enjoy high quality health care through the public system, including hospital care, without having to worry about how I will pay for it. Prescription medications are now largely covered by a provincial pharmacare program to be superseded by a federal pharmacare program.

Flaws of CFE are not the result of government ownership, they are affected by of challenges of hundreds of years of colonialism followed by decades of revolutions, including foreign (largely American) interference.

If the flaws were the function of government ownership, TelMex would not have its long history of unsatisfactory service.

We repeatedly see that “free markets” are anything but free. The capitalist markets are oligopolies. “Competition” is a gentlemen’s club of understandings of what prices will maximize profits for the wealthy.

Militarized Immigration

by jay @, Friday, August 18, 2023, 07:54 (1180 days ago) @ Little Guy

I agree with you but you're not telling the whole story. The downside of all that socialism is the higher taxes Canadians pay. If the US had taxes that high there would be rioting in the streets. So why aren't Canadians marching and burning down the capitol? Are they just too dumb? Have they been so brainwashed that they can't see that they're being fleeced and enslaved by a repressive government?

Or maybe they look at their quality of life and figure the higher taxes are worth it, that maybe government services work pretty well and they're ultimately getting their money's worth. What a novel concept.

Every successful economy in the world has some measures of both capitalism and socialism. The only question is how much of each works best. But in the US conservative zeal to eradicate all socialistic ideas, privatize everything, and cut taxes well beyond the bone means that the US has fallen way behind most other first-world countries in quality-of-life standards. And our uber-individualistic attitudes - and sneering contempt for government services - have led to an erosion of a sense of community and the concept of a public good. And there's no end in sight.

Militarized Immigration

by islandgirl @, Cowichan Valley, Friday, August 18, 2023, 22:31 (1179 days ago) @ jay

Just had an interesting visit with my friend who teaches at Cornell. They are considering moving back to Canada and weighing things out. He said while income tax in Canada is greater, their property taxes in NY state are much higher. While I pay $2300 in property tax, he pays $9000, for the approximately same sqare footage, etc.
I was shocked!

Avatar

Socialism in Mexico

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, August 18, 2023, 09:08 (1180 days ago) @ midalake

I mean, how many brands of toilet paper do we really need, all wrapped in disposable colorful plastic? Current capitalism will kill the last of every species because it can fetch a price some rich asshole will pay. Current capitalism will continue concentrating more wealth into the hands of fewer people.

Might it be possible that even you know one has lost the conversation when toilet paper somehow makes a point?

I posted much more than that, but no surprise you simply ignore the most relevant parts of my argument to be snarky.

All I know>
Gas now costs me $5.41 a gallon [usd] and my electric bill is about 3 times more than in the USA. All brought to me by the socialists of Mexico.

Good! It should be expensive to kill the planet with petroleum products. And CFE bills on excessive use. Do you run A/C all day and night?

Good thing the Mexican Gobermint does not have control of tomato production.

"Might it be possible that even you know one has lost the conversation when tomatoes somehow make a point? "


Guessing you will include another response about toilet paper. RATHER THAN how the Mexican Gobermint represses its own people financially by killing competition and free markets.

Killing free market competition? What the hell are you talking about? Foreign investment in Mexico exceeded 29 billion dollars in just the first half of the year. I don't see any foreign investors pulling out of Mexico, quite the opposite. I certainly don't feel financially repressed. Whose competition was killed? A few predatory petrochemical companies? Ask Canada and the Chinese how their mining operations are going.

Militarized Immigration

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Friday, August 18, 2023, 10:09 (1180 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed.

I do not want to redefine Socialism today. This definition will do!


Your definition simply underscores that you don't know what socialism is or how it's practiced in the real world. But if you're so against it then be consistent and refuse your SOCIAL Security payments, stop using PUBLIC roads, PUBLIC parks and all PUBLIC services. Personally I prefer socialism blended with MORALLY ETHICAL capitalism.

No one is coming for my property in Mexico. And I'm glad to see socialistic practices reducing poverty in Mexico.

Natural resources should all be socialized, unless you want to start paying for the air you breathe, the sunlight that illuminates your days and the breeze that refreshes you. Under the USA's current form of capitalism most of the world's resources are WASTED so that Joe Blow can have a miniaturized boombox (made with rare earths) and drink flavored sugar-water from plastic bottles (that poison the air, land and sea forever and ruin Joe's health so that he takes up space and resources in a medical facility that someone who's been more careful with their health may need). There's such a thing as too many varieties of a product so that it simply becomes a wasteful endeavor to produce it. I mean, how many brands of toilet paper do we really need, all wrapped in disposable colorful plastic? Current capitalism will kill the last of every species because it can fetch a price some rich asshole will pay. Current capitalism will continue concentrating more wealth into the hands of fewer people. It's a broken system we can no longer afford and it's literally destroying the planet. The USA's healthcare system is a prime example of broken capitalism.

The real problem is none of these "incentives" do anything more than punish ordinary people. $5 a gallon gas is not going to motivate the guy who sells fruit from the back of his '89 F150 to buy an electric vehicle, it just makes him that much poorer. When a Coke in a plastic bottle is almost half the price of an aluminum can, it's no real surprise that the beach is littered with plastic. When power companies literally charge you more for using less and generate artificial shortages, who's going to put out the effort?
I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.

So don't put all this on Joe's lifestyle. Joe is not on his knees in Sam's Club begging for a wider choice of TP. Joe would likely not be buying so much sugar water in plastic bottles if he were able to drink from the faucet, instead of buying water in freakin' plastic bottles!!

Avatar

Militarized Immigration

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, August 18, 2023, 14:12 (1180 days ago) @ mindpilot

socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership of the means of production and allows individual choices in a free market to determine how goods and services are distributed.

I do not want to redefine Socialism today. This definition will do!


Your definition simply underscores that you don't know what socialism is or how it's practiced in the real world. But if you're so against it then be consistent and refuse your SOCIAL Security payments, stop using PUBLIC roads, PUBLIC parks and all PUBLIC services. Personally I prefer socialism blended with MORALLY ETHICAL capitalism.

No one is coming for my property in Mexico. And I'm glad to see socialistic practices reducing poverty in Mexico.

Natural resources should all be socialized, unless you want to start paying for the air you breathe, the sunlight that illuminates your days and the breeze that refreshes you. Under the USA's current form of capitalism most of the world's resources are WASTED so that Joe Blow can have a miniaturized boombox (made with rare earths) and drink flavored sugar-water from plastic bottles (that poison the air, land and sea forever and ruin Joe's health so that he takes up space and resources in a medical facility that someone who's been more careful with their health may need). There's such a thing as too many varieties of a product so that it simply becomes a wasteful endeavor to produce it. I mean, how many brands of toilet paper do we really need, all wrapped in disposable colorful plastic? Current capitalism will kill the last of every species because it can fetch a price some rich asshole will pay. Current capitalism will continue concentrating more wealth into the hands of fewer people. It's a broken system we can no longer afford and it's literally destroying the planet. The USA's healthcare system is a prime example of broken capitalism.


The real problem is none of these "incentives" do anything more than punish ordinary people. $5 a gallon gas is not going to motivate the guy who sells fruit from the back of his '89 F150 to buy an electric vehicle, it just makes him that much poorer. When a Coke in a plastic bottle is almost half the price of an aluminum can, it's no real surprise that the beach is littered with plastic. When power companies literally charge you more for using less and generate artificial shortages, who's going to put out the effort?
I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.

So don't put all this on Joe's lifestyle. Joe is not on his knees in Sam's Club begging for a wider choice of TP. Joe would likely not be buying so much sugar water in plastic bottles if he were able to drink from the faucet, instead of buying water in freakin' plastic bottles!!

Not sure why you're angry with me.

That US$5 (or whatever it is) for gasoline in Mexico is a capitalist-driven market price, not the subsidized price that used to keep gasoline prices artificially low. Ask Europeans about gasoline prices and see how they've innovated and adapted their lifestyles and their public transit systems.

People in Mexico drink sugary drinks (not bottled water) out of bad habit, not for lack of fresh water. You have an odd misconception about the source of the plastic bottles choking up sewers, arroyos, rivers and washing up on our shores. The current federal government has done much to change that with their required product labeling.

Power companies DON'T charge more for using less. YOU have a problem that you haven't fixed.

And I can't help you with your moral dilemma. I've made sacrifices and adjustments pretty much my entire life not to be wasteful or live "the American dream" because it's always been obvious to me that it's an unsustainable lifestyle. I willingly do what I can as do tens of millions of people around the world regardless of their income or what others do or what their governments do. We do so because it's the right thing to do.

Militarized Immigration

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 18:49 (1178 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Not angry with anyone.

Externalized Costs and Other Self-Interests

by Little Guy @, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 12:06 (1179 days ago) @ mindpilot

The real problem is none of these "incentives" do anything more than punish ordinary people. $5 a gallon gas is not going to motivate the guy who sells fruit from the back of his '89 F150 to buy an electric vehicle, it just makes him that much poorer.

The actual incentives and subsidies have been to petroleum corporations.

“The United States subsidizes the fossil fuel industry with taxpayer dollars. It’s not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 – the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income.”

“But the really big subsidy is the license to pollute for free. The IMF calls this global free pass an ‘implicit’ fossil fuel subsidy. Economists call it an ‘unpriced externality.’ You tally up the harms, and the IMF estimates it at a $5.4 trillion annual subsidy worldwide. In the United States, it’s $646 billion – every single year.”

US Senate Committee on the Budget

Add up the true costs of petroleum and $5/gallon hardly begins to cover it.

When a Coke in a plastic bottle is almost half the price of an aluminum can, it's no real surprise that the beach is littered with plastic.

The reason there are plastic bottles strewn about is because some governments permit these “unpriced externalities”. (A cost externality is when there is a business cost that the business gets someone else to absorb.)

I walk on the beach most days when I am at my home in Canada most days. I have never seen a plastic bottle on the beach. I walk on the beach in Mexico and it is strewn with plastic bottles. Why? Because where I live in Canada, plastic bottles can be returned for C$0.10 (M$1.26) each.

In Mexico, I sometimes see aluminum can litter, but it doesn’t stay there long. People collect them because they can be sold for recycling. Imagine how quickly the beaches woukd be scoured if every 100 soft drink bottles yielded M$126.

When power companies literally charge you more for using less and generate artificial shortages, who's going to put out the effort?

Nice allegation. Proof?

I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.

At least you are open about your self-interested approach to perhaps the greatest existential threat to human societies after nuclear war. Like the corporations you criticize, you are more interested in generating “unpriced externalities” for yourself.

So don't put all this on Joe's lifestyle. Joe is not on his knees in Sam's Club begging for a wider choice of TP. Joe would likely not be buying so much sugar water in plastic bottles if he were able to drink from the faucet, instead of buying water in freakin' plastic bottles!!

Joe doesn’t have to drink from the faucet. In fact, the idea of drinking from the faucet is preposterous for anyone who thinks about it. In the US and Canada we spend billions of dollars and use many tonnes of processing chemicals to purify water that will be used for watering lawns, cleaning cars, washing pets, flushing down toilets, etc. Consider the stupidity of purifying water to poop in.

In Mexico, a two litre bottle of water is cheaper than a two litre bottle of sugar water. In fact, a two litre bottle of Coke is more expensive than a 19 litre bottle of water.

Externalized Costs and Other Self-Interests

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 18:38 (1178 days ago) @ Little Guy


I walk on the beach most days when I am at my home in Canada most days. I have never seen a plastic bottle on the beach. I walk on the beach in Mexico and it is strewn with plastic bottles. Why? Because where I live in Canada, plastic bottles can be returned for C$0.10 (M$1.26) each.

In Mexico, I sometimes see aluminum can litter, but it doesn’t stay there long. People collect them because they can be sold for recycling. Imagine how quickly the beaches woukd be scoured if every 100 soft drink bottles yielded M$126.

You make my point for me.

When power companies literally charge you more for using less and generate artificial shortages, who's going to put out the effort?


Nice allegation. Proof?

San Diego Gas & Electric. A few years ago they were caught sabotaging generation equipment during peak demand times, so they could buy power from other suppliers and sell in back at hugely increased rates. Tapes exist of brokers talking to each other joking about how grandma can't afford electricity. At one rate increase meeting the CEO literally said, "we have to raise rates because people are using less." Then they invented Daily Peak Pricing. If you went over a certain amount at any point during peak demand times, you went on punishment rates. Of course, just like CFE's tiers, the amount of is so low as to be absurd.

I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.


At least you are open about your self-interested approach to perhaps the greatest existential threat to human societies after nuclear war. Like the corporations you criticize, you are more interested in generating “unpriced externalities” for yourself.

Yes. I have come to realize that life as humans have know for past few thousand years is over. The is absolutely nothing any of us can do to mitigate climate change. The very best we can hope for is to adapt. We know governments and corporations will continue to do nothing but make individual's lives more difficult, putting the onus on individuals. 40 - 50 years ago we had a chance. But y'all didn't pay any attention, now it is way too late, past the tipping point.

My self-interest is pragmatic. I didn't put up solar panels because I want to help save the world. I did it to ease the pressure on my wallet. During the 1st Gulf War, I was standing in my kitchen, peeling the label from a soup can for recycling. I look over at the TV to see dozens of oil wells on fire, 10s of thousands of barrels of oil, burning, tons of toxic black smoke pouring into the air. I realized at that moment exactly what John Houseman's line from Rollerball meant, "the purpose of the game, Jonathan, is to demonstrate the futility of individual effort." I do what I can--it keeps my conscience clear--but do so with the understanding that I ain't gonna change a thing. At the time I was a drivability and Emission tech at Ford. It was literally my job to make cars run as clean as possible. All my work undone by one burning oil well.

So don't put all this on Joe's lifestyle. Joe is not on his knees in Sam's Club begging for a wider choice of TP. Joe would likely not be buying so much sugar water in plastic bottles if he were able to drink from the faucet, instead of buying water in freakin' plastic bottles!!


Joe doesn’t have to drink from the faucet. In fact, the idea of drinking from the faucet is preposterous for anyone who thinks about it. In the US and Canada we spend billions of dollars and use many tonnes of processing chemicals to purify water that will be used for watering lawns, cleaning cars, washing pets, flushing down toilets, etc. Consider the stupidity of purifying water to poop in.

In Mexico, a two litre bottle of water is cheaper than a two litre bottle of sugar water. In fact, a two litre bottle of Coke is more expensive than a 19 litre bottle of water.

So what's worse? Tons of chemicals used to purify water or tons of chemicals to distribute water in plastic bottles? How about the fuel used and pollutants created by la pipa? And yes, I would hope water costs less than Coke, but it was probably the very same sugar-water mega-company that bottled both.

The point being Joe did not demand these be his choices, because they are all bad.

Surrender Or Courage

by Little Guy @, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 20:24 (1178 days ago) @ mindpilot

I am much more optimistic than you.

In the 1950s, with apartheid strong in South Africa, western governments supporting White rule, and racial segregation deeply entrenched in US states, the “easy out” would have been to say that change cannot happen. But we did it.

I wrote a paper in the 1960s about the importance of accepting homosexuals as full members of society. Others said I was just being stupid. But we did it.

In the 1960s, with the US deeply entrenched in Vietnam, the “easy out” would have been to say the US could not leave. But it did.

In the 1970s, pesticides were making species extinct and bringing other species to the edge. The “easy out” would have been to say that we could not eliminate those pesticides. But we did it.

In the 1980s, the hole in the ozone was expanding. The “easy out” would have been to say we could not eliminate CFCs. But we did it.

I could go on through other decades.

You might be willing to take the “easy way” out of defeatism and surrender. I am glad that millions of others have more commitment and courage.

Some believe as Margaret Mead said,

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed individuals can change the world. In fact, it's the only thing that ever has.

Others share the view of Tom Hayden,

Any oppressed people will always look like they are asleep to everybody from the oppressor to the organizers to the experts who are observing and writing about them . . . The people who seem asleep always awake at the most unusual times. No one ever predicts when or where people will rise up. . . . If you predict a revolt here, it will start there.

Either way is a path to progress for humanity. I am glad there are those who have the courage to take on challenges.

Surrender Or Courage

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 20:43 (1178 days ago) @ Little Guy

Naw, I'm just a realist. There are far too many cruel, evil and stupid people in the world for this whole civilization thing to ever really work.

Cruel, evil and stupid people

by Little Guy @, Saturday, August 19, 2023, 22:12 (1178 days ago) @ mindpilot

Naw, I'm just a realist. There are far too many cruel, evil and stupid people in the world for this whole civilization thing to ever really work.

“Cruel, evil and stupid people” who say things like, “I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.”?

Cruel, evil and stupid people

by mindpilot @, la Playa Buenavista, Sunday, August 20, 2023, 10:05 (1178 days ago) @ Little Guy

Naw, I'm just a realist. There are far too many cruel, evil and stupid people in the world for this whole civilization thing to ever really work.


“Cruel, evil and stupid people” who say things like, “I couldn't really care less what my carbon footprint is because as long as governments and corporations refuse to deviate from their profitable status quo, nothing I do will make a damn bit of difference. I care what it costs me to live.”?

:jeer: :jeer: :jeer: :jeer:

Surrender Or Courage

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Sunday, August 20, 2023, 11:40 (1178 days ago) @ mindpilot

Naw, I'm just a realist. There are far too many cruel, evil and stupid people in the world for this whole civilization thing to ever really work.

"It is gloomy moment in history. Not in the lifetime of any man who reads this paper has there been so much grave and deep apprehension; never has the future seemed so dark and incalculable. In France, political cauldron the seethes and bubbles with uncertainty. England and the English empire is being sorely tried and exhausted in a social and economic struggle. The United States is beset with racial, industrial and commercial chaos, drifting we know not where. Russia hangs like a storm on the horizon of European dark and silent. It is a solemn moment and no man can feel indifference. Of our troubles, no man can see the end." -- Harper's Magazine, October 10, 1847

"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." -- Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 24, verses 6 and 7

Pardon my optimism, but I am firmly convinced that the best times are yet to come for the human race. The last 200 years have been the most economically prosperous years in the history of the world. Our standard of living is exponentially higher than 200 years ago. The future, from an economic and standard of living standpoint, should be even better. Before the pandemic, the percentage of individuals living at the world's standard for middle class was the highest it had ever been. (Darned microbe.)

We tend to take ourselves for granted. However, think about what we as a species did when the Covid virus hit. Before 2020, it would take from 4 to 10 years, if ever, for a virus vaccine to hit the market. Multiple organizations around the world created a vaccine in six months, mas o menos. We have a heterogeneous communications network that a device costing less than US$50 can connect to. (Fancy term for the Internet.) We now have rockets that land themselves and can be reused. We are on the brink of driverless cars available for contract from your mobile phone. We will have flying taxis. We will have universal translators. We will cure cancer. We will combat climate change. I am sure of this last one. Why? Because we have no choice.

Having said that, I am scared to death of the rise of totalitarianism around the world. Notice that along with the economic prosperity of the last 200 years, we experienced two world wars where tens of millions died. It may just be that we will see World War III, maybe sooner than we expected. Hundreds of millions will die. But the human race will survive. I think so. As Kurt Vonnegut would say, "So it goes."

In the meantime, do you want to change the world? You can. Research how you can change your life for the betterment of you and your family and also the world. You will change the world.

Respectfully submitted,

Padrino, the Cockeyed Optimist

Avatar

Surrender Or Courage

by frostbite @, Hamilton MT, Sunday, August 20, 2023, 05:48 (1178 days ago) @ Little Guy

:megusta: