Zihuatanejo-Ixtapa Message Board - Notes on a culture displaced

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Many evenings my wife and I stroll the waterfront, greeting friends along the away and taking in the evening's sights and sounds. One thing we can't help but to notice in recent years is how our local wandering musicians are having a harder and harder time making a living because it seems like every restaurant with any foreign tourists hires its own musicians, most who aren't from here or aren't even Mexican. So now our local musician friends sadly sit idle most evenings growing poorer, and their families are suffering because fewer tourists are hiring them to hear their songs. It breaks our hearts to see our beautiful culture slowly but surely being displaced and lost forever.

It used to be almost every afternoon during siesta and every evening we would be serenaded by the sound of local musicians playing romantic baladas at restaurants on the beach in front of our home, one of the little pleasures we treasured so much over the decades, but in recent years we hardly ever hear a local musician play any more. And even Mexican musicians from other places are playing music that frankly sounds foreign to Zihuatanejo (actually heard "Oh When the Saints Come Marching In" the other night, complete with loud drunks accompanying, thank you so much).

The congo and bongo drum music mentioned in another thread is just one such example.

If any of you even give a sh*t about any of this, maybe you can help by showing a preference for restaurants without house musicians where wandering musicians play. I don't know. I mean, y'all can hear U.S. music anytime, can't you? But it's not every day you can hear live Zihuatanejo musicians play the songs of our local culture, even if most of you can't understand the words (or is that what the problem is?). But hurry because it seems there are fewer duos and trios left, and I don't know how much longer they can hold out with such little work as our seasons grow shorter and more out-of-towners bring their foreign culture with them.

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Rob, are the in-house musicians - the "not strolling" ones - you make reference to "foreign" (from outside Mexico) or are they Mexicans who've relocated for the "season" from other parts of Mexico? If they're "foreign" then maybe you or others can simply report them to INM for working in violation of their immigration status. If they're Mexican, but not from Zihua, and there only for the "season," suggesting what you have, diners and/or potential diners telling the management of the restaurants that they'll not return if they continue their policy, seems pretty good, and potentially effective, to me.

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Rob, are the in-house musicians - the "not strolling" ones - you make reference to "foreign" (from outside Mexico) or are they Mexicans who've relocated for the "season" from other parts of Mexico? If they're "foreign" then maybe you or others can simply report them to INM for working in violation of their immigration status. If they're Mexican, but not from Zihua, and there only for the "season," suggesting what you have, diners and/or potential diners telling the management of the restaurants that they'll not return if they continue their policy, seems pretty good, and potentially effective, to me.

There is a mix of both relocated Mexicans and foreigners, most who only seem to appear during the winter high season. The ones I know seem to be very nice people and I like to think there is a way they can earn their living here while not displacing local musicians since there are many popular restaurants in locations where wandering musicians don't go.

I can't be sure, but as far as I know the foreigners are all working with proper permits, although I don't know what happened to the local musicians' union or if our local musicians even have to belong to it anymore like they used to.

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Couldn't agree more. Why would we, Canadians and Americans, come to Mexico to listen to "American" or "commercial" music? We can listen to The Monkees, Frank Sinatra, the Beatles and other commercially canned music at home, on our iPods or in the loud bars. It is a shame that we talk about supporting the local Mexican culture and people and then we frequent the places that don't seem to allow the local musicians the ability to make a decent living.
Next time you're out for dinner if you hear commercial music or drum machines coming from the restaurant maybe you should reconsider where you spend your money.
Just a thought!

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Rob, I partially agree with you. Only Partially.

We live here 3 or four months a year. I very much enjoy traditional Mexican music and listen to it frequently. What about the pan pipes? I know there is at least one group from other Central and South American countries that play here. What group do you put them in? I also tip well (at least 50 pesos) even though they are not playing for me, if the music is good and much of it is. Unfortunately, too often the music is terrible--off key, out of tune instruments, etc. (but at least they are trying to do something and not begging).

I do however also enjoy live classical, jazz, blues and some rock and roll.Should I have to do without that while here?

Back in our summer home in Victoria BC our favourite pub frequently has latino bands playing Mexican and South American music. Do you infer that I shouldn't go there to listen to the "foreign" musicians playing latino music, but should drive to town and only support Canadian buskers?

I also tend to frequent small local restaurants that serve real Mexican food, but sometimes like a change. Do you infer also that we shouldn't frequent restaurants or other businesses run by "foreigners" until they have gained full Mexican citizenship?

Mexico is becoming cosmopolitan bit by bit; 20 years ago we enjoyed Classical music in the zocalo in Oaxaca, performed by that city's symphony orchestra. Last year my niece was in Mexico City and Guanajuato singing opera. Is this bad because it's not Mexican or Traditional?

Like it or not Rob, Zihuatanejo is a tourist destination. Some stay only a week, some of us stay much longer making it a second home. As such it will have foreign influences. Some of this I enjoy, some (much) I do not, but let's not ban foreign content just because it's not traditional or Mexican in origin.

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just in response to the Canadian Rainbirds.... I agree with your preference sentiments, but I think the idea is that Mexican musicians, who have spent their entire lives perfecting their incredible sounds, are not making enough money to survive and we can help by supporting their hard work and talent by dining in places that encourage their work. We can always stick an Ipod bud in our ear and filter jazz, rock or blues into our minds as we wander or sit on beaches, etc. In some small towns in Mexico the youth spend hours and hours practicing on their tubas and horns so they can be as good as their Dad.. a great pastime and something to nurture. Mexico is a very unique and special place that needs to hang onto its culture simply because it is so much the reason we are there. Viva Mexico.... :star:

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I regret it appears my sentiments fell on deaf ears, or perhaps you just don't get it. Please read my reply to Bill since it addresses some of your comments.

I listen to plenty of music from other places, but not at local bars or restaurants. That's why I have my own sound system and portable music player with earphones.

The pan pipes are nice, but they're Andean, not Mexican. However, they don't clash too badly with our local culture, just like Cuban music also fits in well here.

Opera in Mexico City is nice. It is a cosmopolitan city by its own definition. Zihuatanejo is exactly the opposite. Orchestras in Oaxaca City are nice, too, and they are expected to play certain orchestral compositions, but the fact that you even mention these things suggests to me that you either miss the point or don't care.

I have heard a lot of chilango rock'n'roll blaring on our street this year from a new open-air bar. Perhaps if they at least turned down their volume while cultural events are happening just across the street in the zócalo I wouldn't have such a poor opinion of them. A little respect goes a long way here. And that's all I'm asking for from you.

Why do you tip musicians 50 pesos who are playing for someone else? That's about what they get per song, and they do not expect free money for doing nothing for you. If you like their music then hire them to play for you, but please don't encourage inflation and rate-busting by tipping exhorbitantly when it isn't customary. Such practices can actually cause more harm than good for our community in the larger scheme of things.

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Rob, your message didn't fall on deaf ears, at least mine were listening, perhaps I wasn't clear enough:

I will go to Rafa's, Daniels, Tango's Litte Suizza etc. to listen to Jimi (isn't he a local yet?) Josie, Isahrai, ONLY when we want to listen to their music. No music there, we stay at home.

We often eat at other restaurants, the locals aren't loosing anything from us.

If walking down the Paseo del Pescador and a musician is playing at one of the restaurants as we pass by we will often stop to listen. If we stop to listen, we show our appreciation by contributing.

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I will go to Rafa's, Daniels, Tango's Litte Suizza etc. to listen to Jimi (isn't he a local yet?) Josie, Isahrai, ONLY when we want to listen to their music. No music there, we stay at home.

It's a free country. Do what you want. I'm just saying your behavior is part of the problem I referred to. Is it okay with you if I make a judgement call on that? You certainly don't have to live by my principles. My comments are as much directed at such clientele as they are the restaurants and musicians. Hopefully instead of playing "who me?" games or otherwise arguing the matter, those of us who agree and who care can simply be aware of the problem and see if there's a way around it without stepping on any toes, bruising egos or causing different hardships. I'm confident the problem can be solved without taking extreme positions or measures.

We often eat at other restaurants, the locals aren't loosing anything from us.

They may not be losing anything, but this is about the wandering musicians, not the restaurants. ;-)

If walking down the Paseo del Pescador and a musician is playing at one of the restaurants as we pass by we will often stop to listen. If we stop to listen, we show our appreciation by contributing.

That is not how it works. You pay for the song if you hire them. If you like their music pay for another song. But please don't break with local custom and start tipping them when musicians play for someone else. It can lead to different problems and unhelpful perceptions. Do you also tip the waiter at the next table, or the maid for cleaning the room next to yours? Do you tip the taxi driver who gave someone else a ride, or the bellboy who carried someone else's bags?

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Point taken Rob. Although I don't agree 100%, I see your point and am with you in this for the most part.

So much so that if you wish to respond again I'll let you have the last word! :-D

Arturo

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Point taken Rob. Although I don't agree 100%, I see your point and am with you in this for the most part.

So much so that if you wish to respond again I'll let you have the last word!

Arturo

Terrific! Gives me a chance to post another of my favorite songs.

I kind of thought you were really mostly with me all along. ;-)

And don't get me wrong. I like Jimi and Josie and jazz and chilango rock and talented northerners and a good variety of music for everyone. I'm just making an observation and hoping there's an easy way for everyone to come out a winner. The local musicians I've mentioned this to were all smiles and thanking me for standing up for them.

https://youtu.be/97w7IHvJ7yQ

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First and foremost I certainly wish the best for the wandering musicians and like everywhere else in the world the music biz is very competitive.

I dont have any interest in listening to G-L-O-R-I-A at Pacalos but it obviously seems work very well for the winter vacationers. I dont think that big of a crowd would be in there just for the restaurant. However I do enjoy some of the handfull of other talent that has come down from the north and they are indeed very talented. They dont seem to be getting rich by playing 1 - 3 gigs a week.

It just seems to me that if there are maybe 2 - 5 restaurants on a given night (from Centro to La Ropa) mainly during the Gringo season that have the foreign entertainers, who by the way are part of your community, is it really because of these very few venues causing the wandering musicians to grow poorer? You could be very well be right but to me this math doesn't seem to show it.

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I believe you misunderstand the problem. The local musicians operate within certain territories, and the mostly elderly guys who have traditionally operated along the waterfront and downtown areas are the ones being disproportionately displaced. These guys don't have 401k's or retirement funds. If they don't work, they don't eat. And lately due to all the waterfront and downtown restaurants that have house musicians I see that it is creating a hardship for them. Since many of them are my friends and acquaintences of many years, I thought I should say something on their behalf.

I truly hate to see the arrival of the type of tourist who no longer tries to respect or understand our local culture and who simply prefers to bring their me-first attitude along with them. They can ruin a good tourist community. :-(

Remember, culture is something acquired through learning. B-)

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Yup...agreed. They should (and deserve to) get a plug and promoted more often.

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Part of the problem could be is that we don't know what to expect to pay for a song or two and it is easier to say no gracias then ask! What should one expect to pay for a song maybe this will help?

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Part of the problem could be is that we don't know what to expect to pay for a song or two and it is easier to say no gracias then ask! What should one expect to pay for a song maybe this will help?

How difficult is it to ask? No offense, but your reply sounds like a copout. :nono:

The amount depends on the group and how good they are. Fifty or sixty or seventy pesos per song is not unreasonable, or make a deal for several songs. The musicians are flexible. If they're doing a good business their price often comes down for several songs. When things are tough they have less wiggle room to bargain with. Welcome to Mexican economics. B-)

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Ok - I hear you - but what about people like Juanito Zihua - one of my favorites - and who plays in some of the local resturants. I believe he is a local is he not? We support the wandering musicians whenever we can. They had a "good day" on Las gatas last week!

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The wandering musicians at Las Gatas don't have any competition from in-house musicians. But I'm sure they're grateful for your business. ;-)

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Thank you Rob for your thoughtful and well meant message. I hope many people participating on this message board take this to heart.

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We did our part and requested, "Zihuatanejo". They did a wonderful job and received a handsome tip.

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Great pictures tonight Kim!

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One of the first things I do when I come to Zihuatanejo is to go by Joes casa Marina and look for the Two gentlemen in Robs opening picture. The sound of their mature voices in harmony singing authentic Mexican music, with the great guitar playing lets me know I'm in Zihuatanejo, and 70 pesos is only about $5,60 cents american, a bargain for that sound.

What you hear is a lifetime of playing the music they love, I usually ask them to play something that they enjoy, I've never been disapointed with them.

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They have played together for 50 years. I enjoy talking with them and listening to them play. I am lucky where my house is and sometimes hear them when they are playing at Chuleto's or el Mediteranio.

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I know this is an old thread, but it is even more relevant now than ever and I thought this video should be posted here. Many of the foreign musicians mentioned by several folks in this thread have moved on since they couldn't make a living here due to the drop in tourism, though a new one or two have also shown up. Imagine, if it's that hard for them how hard it must be for the local musicians who don't have money saved to travel where they wish or homes to go back to in other lands.

¡Vivan Odilón y José! :vivamexico:

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I know this is an old thread, but it is even more relevant now than ever

Your message rings true Rob. Rather than have this lost in the old thread on the subject may I respectfully suggest that you create a new thread so it's not lost in the "way back"?

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Please see the message I posted under "Registering & Using the Message Board" called TIP: Keeping up with discussions

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Please see the message I posted under "Registering & Using the Message Board" called TIP: Keeping up with discussions

That is a feature that I sometimes use, but not often.

As you wrote however, it is a culture being displaced. It seems to me that back when La Bocana was still open such musicians were easier to find. For me that was one of the things I enjoyed most at La Bocana: seeing an extended family out for a special occasion, enjoying food and the traditional music.

I can't (or rather won't) criticize other musicians and venues ... like the recent post advertising "Eddie Machete" ... because I've never been to that place nor do I know what sort of music it is. He may be terrific for all I know. To each his own taste I suppose. But it sure can't be like the traditional stuff, so I just don't or won't go. I guess I'm just an old fart who also is being displaced!

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I guess I'm just an old fart who also is being displaced!

That makes two of us! ;-)

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I missed this thread the first time around so will throw my two cents in now. As a person who generally spends his nights going from one music venue to another and who also spends his afternoons and evenings on the beach I am familiar with pretty much every musician in El Centro. I particularly like the local, traditional music and go out of my way to seek it out when I can. Rob and I tend to disagree a bit when I comes to defining who is local but not about the situation of the street minstrels. They do have an active union and the only foreigner who I know that strolls the beach belongs to it and pays his dues. I never have asked him for a song, just out of principle.
I am not sure of the current situation on the beach but, for the most part, I do not think that the restaurants with music are much in competition with the strollers. They tend to stick pretty close to the beach. What I do find to be a problem that has only been touched on, both on the beach and at the restaurants, is that the musicians often play non-traditional music because that is what people ask for. This is more of a problem at the restaurants but happens at the beach as well. I used to argue vociferously with one particular local duo who are masters at several schools of classical latin music about why they did not play more of it. They said they were playing what their audience wanted to hear, James Taylor, etc. and after observing them for years now, I have given up, they are right. I think that the answer lies more with the attitude of the people coming to Zihua. They need to embrace the local customs and culture more and come outside of their musical comfort zone. Not sure how to make this come about but that is the problem as I see it. Not other musicians.

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