tourism

Is the tourist traffic really down? Just spoke with a person that was in ixtapa last week and their hotel was only 20% occupied, Ala cart restaraunts were closed etc.

Is the tourist traffic really down? Just spoke with a person that was in ixtapa last week and their hotel was only 20% occupied, Ala cart restaraunts were closed etc.

Tourism has been down for the past 11 years, since 9/11.

Ixtapa's hotels are at odds with the rest of the community, and their almost universal model of exclusively "all-included" packages has caused the economic disaster we see in the shopping centers of Ixtapa. Their hotel association claims this year will be better than last, and it is possible the big high-rise waterfront hotel will actually have more warm bodies, but in their corporate quest for quantity they have stupidly traded off quality, and the purchasing power and purchasing practices of their guests is the lowest ever in the history of Ixtapa, as is clearly evidenced by the decaying shopping areas. Unfortunately apart from the pay to their employees, Ixtapa's hotels contribute nothing to the community and haven't ever since around former disgraced Governor Rubén Figueróa threatened the former manager of the then Sheraton Hotel Bob Niederhauser when he met with the governor along with other local hotel managers to ask for accountability in a state tax called "Protur" all local businesses pay that is supposed to be used for promotion but that apparently is a personal cash box of corrupt state officials. Bob was the last of the big Ixtapa waterfront high-rise hotel managers to actually involve an Ixtapa hotel in community affairs and invite the community to the hotel. Bob and his wife packed their things and were gone from Mexico the next day. That was back in late 1994 or early 1995, I believe. Ixtapa has only deteriorated since then, and absolutely nothing of substance has changed in the state government, although the current governor is the first non-cacique we've had in decades and I believe the only non-partisan governor we've ever had.

Last week was no special week in Ixtapa and there was no reason for there to have been many tourists. Events in Iguala have undoubtedly caused changed plans for many vacationers to our state, but Zihuatanejo-Ixtapa is so far removed from Iguala that we are only minimally affected. Once school lets out we expect the roads to be full with cars and buses of vacationers as is normal for this time of year. January will be the real test to see if our regional tourist season is a boom or a bust.

Aren't you glad you asked?

Give a little credit to the Condos there Rob. We, us spend lots at all the business in the Ixtapa district. All bet it would be much worse if these two/three projects were not there. I have seen the change over the years. I also see who is in town. The mandatory AI plan for Ixtapa/Z is a disgrace.

Dave

There is more to Ixtapa than Hotels. Many of us own homes and condominiums in Ixtapa. We pay taxes and buy from the local merchants in Zihuatanejo. tMany of he employees that work at the hotels, restaurants and shops also live in Zihuatanejo and add to the support of the local economy. I do not agree with the mandatory all inclusive either and can't believe how many tourists come to our beautiful piece of paradise and never leave their hotel for there entire vacation. Ixtapa is a part of Zihuatanejo I love and enjoy both areas.

They put in AI and then refer to themselves as resorts,!!!!

Give a little credit to the Condos there Rob. We, us spend lots at all the business in the Ixtapa district. All bet it would be much worse if these two/three projects were not there. I have seen the change over the years. I also see who is in town. The mandatory AI plan for Ixtapa/Z is a disgrace.

Dave

As much as I like some of the condos and many of their owners, I cannot say we prosper much from them, and not just from what I've seen and experienced here but from what I've also experienced along Florida's Sun Coast. Florida's style of condo commandos have pretty much ruined that entire region of southwest Florida. For example, the deciding votes that unfortunately got Rick Scott re-elected came mostly from the Naples and Ft. Myers area. Most of the condo owners neither live there year round nor rent out their condos year round. Same problem we have. Non all-included hotels tend to generate much more money for the local economy and a greater demand for local services than condos. Once a condo is built it tends to just sit there, but a hotel must keep its rooms occupied to stay in business. The exception is the corporate chain like many of our Ixtapa hotels who have been known over the years to intentionally lose money here to lower their taxes for income generated in other destinations.

Local wisdom pretty much agrees that allowing places like the Sotavento and some Ixtapa high-rise beachfront properties to be condos instead of hotels is a bit of a betrayal to the local economy since hotels tend to generate more local income, setting aside for the moment the problem with all-included hotels. I hope we can turn this around and see the condos generating more income, but I see the daily numbers in terms of visits to my clients' websites for both hotels and condos, and hotels easily win hands down in that department though we offer some spectacular condos with competitive services and prices. We just don't see anywhere near the same number of folks looking for waterfront high-rise condo rentals as we do for any other kind of lodging almost anywhere else. To me it's a bit maddening because I really want to help my clients find renters for their places. But I have so far been unable to change the overall trend among potential visitors.

There is more to Ixtapa than Hotels. Many of us own homes and condominiums in Ixtapa. We pay taxes and buy from the local merchants in Zihuatanejo. tMany of he employees that work at the hotels, restaurants and shops also live in Zihuatanejo and add to the support of the local economy. I do not agree with the mandatory all inclusive either and can't believe how many tourists come to our beautiful piece of paradise and never leave their hotel for there entire vacation. Ixtapa is a part of Zihuatanejo I love and enjoy both areas.

Here here!

Very intersting Rob.

It is said that Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo is mainly a Mexican tourist resort/place.
What is your take on this?
Is it still so?

Very intersting Rob.

It is said that Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo is mainly a Mexican tourist resort/place.
What is your take on this?
Is it still so?

While that is true, the tourism everyone has historically prospered from has been foreign, especially in Zihuatanejo. We used to get more prosperous national tourists, but in recent years thanks to poor promotion and unfortunate events it seems we've traded off quality for quantity, so now we get possibly more tourists, but they spend a lot less both in Ixtapa as well as in Zihuatanejo.

Would not expect much off a pick-up soon. Looking at flights for next weekend (Christmas Week) and flights from DFW and IAH are half-full. There may be some re-booking from Cabo but they aren't coming to ZIH.

As to AI bashing, seems to me the more the merrier and if some want AI, good for them. There are plenty of lodging options available apart from AI so no one is being forced to go AI against their wishes. Just as with cruise ships (another favorite whipping boy) my guess is that many folks who now stay in Zihua first visited the area on a package AI tour. Hard to start a relationship without a first date and if that first date is AI, so be it.

As to intentionally losing money to reduce taxes elsewhere, pretty obvious that is not a sustainable business model. Not saying there are not accounting methods to shift income/loss among various entities but actual cash losses to offset taxes owed is ridiculous, unless tax rate is in excess of 100%.

Bottom line? These are trying times for the tourist industry in Zihuatanejo and the coming season is likely to be tough. It sounds like there is real progress on the policing issues but let's face it, the news out of Guerrero has not been good. Easy for those of us familiar with the area to put things in perspective but understandable if others have concerns. Biggest help, IMHO, would be a quiet year on the negative news front and cheaper airfares. Just too many other options for those not already in love with Zihua. Here's hoping 2015 is the start of an 'up cycle' for Zihuatanejo.

Be there next Saturday, very much looking forward to it.

Have to agree with your realistic approach and would like to add: Yes, AI is a major ofrce in the tourism industry now. People want convenience ("take care of me" and value (most bang for the buck) and they perceive AI is where they get these things.

Someone commented on making it with a business in a 4 moth tourist season. Yes, very true. Either you have to have something very exclusive so you can charge the big bucks OR you have to find a way to stretch the season. Is there any marketing to winter season in S. America? A far stretch I admit but just a suggestion. Start off with economy priced tours and go from there.

I have visited Z twice...both times 10 plus years ago. I have followed this board for years. Here is my 2 bits worth?

1.Have been visiting PVR every year at least once...sometimes twice (a month at a time).

2.Have always rented a condo/villa.

3.A number of years back I was contemplating a return visit, and made inquiries about rentals. Pricing was 30%-40% more than PVR.

4.When I queried the rental people as to why the gap...."That's the way it is"...was the reply....and I'm talking $2000+ US a month difference. Total indifference from the rental folks. This fact alone turned me off!

5.I am talking about anywhere from 8 to 14 people. I will be returning to PVR in February with a group of 14 for 2-4 weeks.

6.Air fare is a killer, when you have large number of people travelling.

I would love to make Z my destination of choice...but the economics just don't make sense.

Z has many more things to offer than PVR.....but...like others have said sometimes you have to look at the scale of economics. My wallet is NOT a bottomless pit.

Where is PVR?

We first visited Ixtapa and stayed at the Krystal complex, didn't take long to learn that there was much more outside the hotel. We now do the condo holiday not far from franks and enjoy our day trips into zihua and the surrounding areas like petalan etc.

Puerto Vallarta

Have to agree with your realistic approach and would like to add: Yes, AI is a major ofrce in the tourism industry now. People want convenience ("take care of me" and value (most bang for the buck) and they perceive AI is where they get these things.

Someone commented on making it with a business in a 4 moth tourist season. Yes, very true. Either you have to have something very exclusive so you can charge the big bucks OR you have to find a way to stretch the season. Is there any marketing to winter season in S. America? A far stretch I admit but just a suggestion. Start off with economy priced tours and go from there.

I'm confident my experience living in this and other tourist resorts for over 40 years is 100% more accurate than your all's idle musings from afar. I do genuinely find them amusing, but it somewhat surprises me to find you defending the predatory practices of Ixtapa's AI hotels that all of us here in the business agree are the problem (except of course the participatory Ixtapa hotels), and I can only guess there's a bit of cognitive dissonance involved on your part since you all possibly stay at such resorts either here or in other destinations.

But we don't just have a 4-month tourist season. That 4 months you refer to that is simply one of our tourist seasons. We also have a 2-month summer tourist season, and pretty much year round weekend tourism. Most of our business actually has little to nothing to do with foreign tourist season. More money is typically spent here in the 4 weeks comprising Xmas/NY and Semana Santa/Semana de Pascua than during the 4 months foreign tourists are here.

As for the "major force" of AI and the "plenty of other lodging options", apparently you fail to appreciate Zihuatanejo-Ixtapa's historical niche in the market as well as you appear unaware of how Ixtapa's tourists come to Ixtapa.

Let's take the last part first. The great bulk of Ixtapa's tourists actually buy a package they see advertised or are sold by a travel agent. The great bulk of Ixtapa's tourists are one-time visitors unlikely to return or who otherwise feel no compulsion to return due to anything unique about the area. If they return it is strictly because they find it cheap and easy. And those typical AI visitors could care less whether they were in Ixtapa or Acapulco or Cancún or St. Pete Beach.

Guess what. We could care less about them. I could care less about them. They don't do our economy any good. Quite the contrary, only Ixtapa's corporate-owned chain hotels seek such bottom-of-the-barrel mass tourism, and it shows and that is why Ixtapa's commercial area no longer enjoys the prosperity it once did.

As for those "plenty of other lodging options". Those are the folks I enjoy working the hardest for. Those are the folks who don't get the one-time visitors but who historically attract repeat visitors who develop an appreciation and an affection for the local culture. But they don't get here via the typical travel agent or package deals found advertised. Those lodgings have to work quite a bit harder to find their clientele, and they are constantly being shoved aside by the folks trying to sell potential tourists packages, including the type of marketing our governmental tourism departments make. The owners of those "other lodging options" are often folks who live here with their families and who are participatory members of our community, spending their income here unlike the corporate owned hotels whose profits immediately leave town never to return.

AI is killing both the Ixtapa commercial centers as well as "those other lodging options". That is something I've long known and observed that is finally being generally accepted by the rest of the locals paying attention to our local tourism industry, an industry that unfortunately isn't well understood even by many folks who have been working and living off it for many years. For years too many local folks watched yet said nothing while AI became the norm for the Ixtapa waterfront high-rises. Pretending not to notice the cancer that was killing Ixtapa's restaurant business. AI certainly has its place in the market, but only either as an OPTION for hotels located near a variety of restaurants (such as Ixtapa's Hotel Zone I) or in the case of hotels located far away from restaurant areas, such as the Azul Ixtapa, the Club Med or the Qualton (Ixtapa's Hotel Zone II). Unfortunately the great majority of Ixtapa's Zone I beachfront high-rise hotels don't offer an option. They are now exclusively AI, but Ixtapa was built and developed for hotels that weren't exclusively AI, and hundreds if not thousands of other jobs depended on that non-AI business. And that's the problem.

And excuse me if I'm not one of those capitalists who believes that the end justifies the means: that anyone who creates a job is a good guy. Because the same can thus be said for organized crime and cartels and brothels.

I have visited Z twice...both times 10 plus years ago. I have followed this board for years. Here is my 2 bits worth?

1.Have been visiting PVR every year at least once...sometimes twice (a month at a time).

2.Have always rented a condo/villa.

3.A number of years back I was contemplating a return visit, and made inquiries about rentals. Pricing was 30%-40% more than PVR.

4.When I queried the rental people as to why the gap...."That's the way it is"...was the reply....and I'm talking $2000+ US a month difference. Total indifference from the rental folks. This fact alone turned me off!

5.I am talking about anywhere from 8 to 14 people. I will be returning to PVR in February with a group of 14 for 2-4 weeks.

6.Air fare is a killer, when you have large number of people travelling.

I would love to make Z my destination of choice...but the economics just don't make sense.

Z has many more things to offer than PVR.....but...like others have said sometimes you have to look at the scale of economics. My wallet is NOT a bottomless pit.

Excellent points, and I keep trying to make your point about pricing with my clients who rent their condos. I will continue doing so. Some appear to be more willing to negotiate than others.

And yes, airfare is also killing us, but it is my understanding that considerable discounts are currently available on most if not all flights to here in Zihuatanejo-Ixtapa.

¡Gracias, Tocayo!

Rob, once again you know the truth, 1982 staying in a condo at Real de Palmas, we went to BOGARTS, El Faro, Puerto Mio, Christine's and had a ball, but only for 2- 3 weeks. Then we discovered Zihua, and never looked back, unfortunately, La Perla, where we once had a dinner party for 30 people, all staying in Ixtapa, and we couldn't get a cab for anyone because it was in the sticks, and cabbies afraid to come out here had to be paid in advance to return at say 10pm. to pick us up. Boy how things change. The last time we stayed in Ixtapa was 1994, sorry we can't contribute to that economy, but I'm sure all the AI's do? It was a great spot for the time.

Perhaps I can make myself more clear by saying the reason Z isn't a thriving tourist town is because they (the local economy) is not giving the market what the market wants. And the AIs are. It is that simple.

And I have never stayed in an AI and don't intend because they don't have what I am looking for. On the other hand CBM was a lovely place to stay for 4 months. And over the years 3 times at Bungalows Solecito, twice in the casita Paradise Properties rents on Playa Blance (David Rhiehardt's place), and Puesta del Sol (?)==Syd and LaRae Baker's place, and Nayitos. Always for long stays.

And my favior ite places? Caletade Campos and Patzcuaro.

If the tourists aren't coming to Z then it is because something)s) is not being offered which the tourists want. That is the bottom line and no amount of wishful thinking can chnage that fact.

Perhaps I can make myself more clear by saying the reason Z isn't a thriving tourist town is because they (the local economy) is not giving the market what the market wants. And the AIs are. It is that simple.

And I have never stayed in an AI and don't intend because they don't have what I am looking for. On the other hand CBM was a lovely place to stay for 4 months. And over the years 3 times at Bungalows Solecito, twice in the casita Paradise Properties rents on Playa Blance (David Rhiehardt's place), and Puesta del Sol (?)==Syd and LaRae Baker's place, and Nayitos. Always for long stays.

And my favior ite places? Caletade Campos and Patzcuaro.

If the tourists aren't coming to Z then it is because something)s) is not being offered which the tourists want. That is the bottom line and no amount of wishful thinking can chnage that fact.

I appreciate your perspective, but I don't believe it's quite that simple because typically here in Zihuatanejo (and this is a mistake some public servants and so-called turisteros make) we do not look to compete for the same tourists that go to other destinations. For example, we don't want folks coming to Zihuatanejo looking for Acapulco night-life or Cancún spring-break party atmosphere, even though that seems to be the direction the local authorities have tried to take us with disastrous results. We like being unique and it is a formula that has produced excellent results for us when we had folks in the business and in government who understood this. Now we have too many folks in the business and especially in government who simply don't understand the business, much less Zihuatanejo's place in it. Local Zihuatanejo tourism professionals are calling for the dismissal of the state government's local representative for Sefotur (Secretaría de Fomento Turístico) for exactly the reasons I have endeavored to explain.

External events and the lack of maintenance by our "responsible authorities" have greatly contributed to the current decline in tourism. I am hopeful that this year will be okay but that next year will be much better as we get a new local government. This one recently admitted publicly that it has pretty well screwed everything up. Everyone here agrees it is the worst local government we've ever had.

If you want to understand Zihuatanejo's niche in the tourism market, this pretty well sums it up: Zihuatanejo isn't for everyone, nor does it aspire to be.

Thanks Rob. I agree ... Condos tend to be way overpriced.
I was looking for one to accommodate me for five months.
Didn't find anything and my search started early.

gotta agree with that. cab fare too high, restaurants prices too high, condo rentals too high. golf fees way to high. thats why people go to places like pvt. but hey thats why i come here.

Our own experience when we considered renting an Ixtapa condo may be instructive....or not.
In Oct/13 we had an Ixtapa rental agent show us three Ixtapa condos. We wanted to move in immediately and stay for a full 5 1/2 months. All three were each 2 bedrooms, (though we'd wanted only 1). Two were away from the beach, one was right on Playa Palmar.
Those away from the beach were asking 8500 pesos/month, plus electricity, no drinking water, cleaning or laundry services provided. At one, the pool appeared to be unusable, at the other there was no pool furniture or people. While the units were certainly acceptable, the pool and grounds were not - victims, I suspect, of the apparently widespread problem plaguing many condos in the area: absentee owners not paying their monthly maintenance fees.
The other two bedroom unit, on the beach, was asking 10,500 pesos, but would have accepted 9500. Again, plus electricity, no drinking water, cleaning or laundry services.
We asked the rental agent how much electricity might cost, and were shocked when she said: "From 2000 to 4000 pesos every two months, depending on how much you use your air conditioning."
When we added everything up, including the costs to commute 5 or 6 days/nights/week into Zihua and La Ropa, we figured the monthly cost would exceed our budget, and we ended up spending that whole season back at our usual digs in Centro.
This past April, before we headed home, we thought we would see if there was anything available in Ixtapa for the 2014/15 season. We found a unit for rent - a one room studio - through the Message Board, which happened to be in that same on-the-beach condo. We arranged to meet with the owner and had a look. It was just the one room - a combination small kitchen/bedroom/mini-eating area, plus a bathroom and usable balcony - but we thought we could make-do for a season. The grounds were well-groomed and the pool area was pristine and inviting. When we came to discuss price, we told the owner of the offer we'd had only 5 months earlier - 9500 pesos for a large two bedroom unit in the same complex. Although he knew full well we were talking about renting for 5 1/2 months, and that his unit was only a studio, he replied "I usually charge $600 US per week for this one." He said he would think about it and get back to us, but never bothered.
Of interest, while walking the grounds of this same complex, we ran into a fellow who happened to be the treasurer of their condo association. When we told him of the 9500 peso/month offer for a two bedroom, he said we should have grabbed it, that "the owner was basically giving it to you. He's not making any money at those kind of prices." He went on to explain that the annual condo maintenance fee, (presumably for that 2 bedroom unit), was an astounding 60,000 pesos, with a 5 or 10% reduction if paid in full, in advance. This outrageous monthly fee, (back home in expensive Canada, we live in a two bedroom townhouse condo with garage, have nice grounds, a swimming pool, hot tub and clubhouse, and pay half that on a monthly basis) is possibly a result of the problem we've heard of: absentee owners refusing to pay their monthly fees.
A friend and full-time Ixtapa resident says there are plenty of homes for rent there for 6000 - 7000 pesos/month. If so, these folks aren't getting their message out to potential customers.

Well condo fees are easily found. Any real estate listing will have these fees in the listing. Also do not forget to add the property taxes. Also if you remember Lady M's and others electric bill......Ya that's right it's very expensive. If one misuses the Air there is huge bills. If you were actually offered something on the beach for 9,500 pesos a month you were stealing it and should of taken it.

Dave

But then again...it is only a steal if you want to pay that much for a place to stay.

I know there are tons of beach stays for $680 a month in the US and Canada.

Dave

Correct, In my opinion airfare has turned a lot of NOBs to somewhere else the last 2-3 years. Whenever I shop for my Z trip I always check out what Maz, PV, Cancun, Cabo are, not that I would possibly change the destination but just out of curiosity. Z is always the highest. It sux.

AI has no place in Ixtapa. These are not resorts and the value the guests are getting isnt good. The Ixtapa shopping and restaurants for the small area it covers should boom from the hotels being so close to them and they aren't.

Is the tourist traffic really down? Just spoke with a person that was in ixtapa last week and their hotel was only 20% occupied, Ala cart restaraunts were closed etc.

We love La Barra de Potisi which is a 10 minute drive south of ZIH airport. It's lovely & affordable and the gorgeous beach is endless. We've been going there for 7 years now and we feel like part of the community. We enjoy supporting the local businesses there because it's such a wonderful place. The AI experience is OK for a week or two but go to La Barra if you really want to live with the locals. ....JB

I lived there for two years. Love, love, love it out there.
Hope it stays beautiful and tranquil.

I lived there for two years. Love, love, love it out there.
Hope it stays beautiful and tranquil.

It is a wonderful place. Hopefully Grace & I will see you sometime at La Condesa and buy you a drink.
TTFB ... JB

and just where would those be? In a tent?

AI has no place in Ixtapa. These are not resorts and the value the guests are getting isnt good. The Ixtapa shopping and restaurants for the small area it covers should boom from the hotels being so close to them and they aren't.

Those are some pretty sweeping statements, amigo. We enjoyed a 2 week AI once (in Guayabitos, Nayarit) when it was the only quick and reasonable alternative after we'd had to cancel a longer Mexican holiday due to illness. And I'm not ashamed a bit to say we enjoyed that 2 week AI. Now, however, it's "been there, done that" and I doubt we would try AI again.
Who decided "AI has no place in Ixtapa"? In Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Los Cabos, Manzanillo, Acapulco, Cancun etc., etc.....but not Ixtapa? Why not?
And what's your definition of a "resort"? If it's a place where you can chill out for a week or two and have all your needs fulfilled, it seems to me Ixtapa has lots of those.
Yes, it's a shame the shopping areas in Ixtapa have fallen into disrepair and restaurants have closed - due, without question, to the preponderance of AIs across the street. Maybe the blame should be laid at the feet of Fonatur for miscalculating vacation trends? But banning AIs would be just as unpalatable as forcing all Ixtapa hotels to become AIs. Maybe you have, but I haven't heard anyone say "We'd love to stay at a non-AI hotel on the beach in Ixtapa but there's nowhere to eat anymore." And by the way, there are still several "European Plan" hotels on the beach. Wonder how they're doing, compared to the AIs?

Other questions to ponder are:

How does Playa del Carmen manage to have such a huge
and successful "downtown" with all the AI's in the area?

How does Tulum and Cozumel do it?
Maybe is time to start copying/using other tourism strategies
to make it possible to have both segments of the business...

Just thinking....

Put another way, the market determines what it wants not some governmental authority. Yes, the gov-mint provides the infrastructure, i.e., water, sewer, streets, lawful protection, etc (and herein lies one of the problems of Z as Rob keeps pointing out).

The purpose of marketing is to serve the needs and wants, real or imagined, of the customer base (market). There are some basics that just cannot successfully defeat reality.

When the market sees what it wants and can find it at the best value they will come. My gut feeling is the entreprenuer in Z is constantly shifting what is offered to meet the wants of the consumer with value always a major consideration. As Rob points out it is the gov-mint that is failing to hold up their end.

And even tho it pains me to say it, the NOB tourist is voting with their dollars to say what they want and, gulp!, it is AI.

You're not going to find anything like that along the shores of Lake Michigan in the summertime.

Yep, why reinvent the wheel? When I had a business at one of the entrances to Yellowstone we used to meet with the C of C of other entrances to exchange ideas. Always paid off for everyone involved even the small town mayor/council.

Thanks for the invite. Too bad I don't know who you are! Haha!

"But we don't just have a 4-month tourist season. That 4 months you refer to that is simply one of our tourist seasons. We also have a 2-month summer tourist season, and pretty much year round weekend tourism. Most of our business actually has little to nothing to do with foreign tourist season. More money is typically spent here in the 4 weeks comprising Xmas/NY and Semana Santa/Semana de Pascua than during the 4 months foreign tourists are here."

Really? Is it true that more money is spent by National tourists during the Xmas/NY and Samana Santa holidays than any other time of the year? I'm not doubting you. Just wondering if it is really true. From what I've seen in my years here, the busloads of tourists don't spend much dinero when they're here. If so, who is spending all of that money, and where, during the 4 holiday weeks you are referring to. Am I totally missing another class of National tourist that is not visible to me here in Zihua during the holidays?

"But we don't just have a 4-month tourist season. That 4 months you refer to that is simply one of our tourist seasons. We also have a 2-month summer tourist season, and pretty much year round weekend tourism. Most of our business actually has little to nothing to do with foreign tourist season. More money is typically spent here in the 4 weeks comprising Xmas/NY and Semana Santa/Semana de Pascua than during the 4 months foreign tourists are here."

Really? Is it true that more money is spent by National tourists during the Xmas/NY and Samana Santa holidays than any other time of the year? I'm not doubting you. Just wondering if it is really true. From what I've seen in my years here, the busloads of tourists don't spend much dinero when they're here. If so, who is spending all of that money, and where, during the 4 holiday weeks you are referring to. Am I totally missing another class of National tourist that is not visible to me here in Zihua during the holidays?

I've reviewed the data a number of times over the past 15 years or so, though at the moment I don't really feel like downloading and poring through Sectur's most recent stats (you're certainly welcome to do so in the DataTur section of their website). The sheer number of national tourists overwhelms the numbers of foreigners. Last year 5,427,351 Mexicans visited Guerrero, while during the same period only 207,710 foreigners did, so for foreigners to spend more than Mexicans each foreigner would have to spend each day about the same amount as 26 Mexicans. It just ain't happening.

Y'ur on for a drink- you know me! Ha, Ha, back at ya!

For sure!

I love z for the people! I also truly cherish the friends i have made there and that which is traditional, food, the old markets, the old time wandering musicians....but i have very limited funds and must keep my trip , if i can save enough to take one , to a tight budget and more importantly I love to swim. My growing sense is that the bay is Z is just getting too polluted and my body doesn't feel inclined to spending a lot of time in the water there anymore. Last year i bused to Barra where at least with open ocean and the stronger current it seems cleaner but it was a little too rough to actually swim much. So sadly I am feeling more inclined to find another place to travel to where the water is cleaner! It breaks my heart because in every other way Z has captured my heart. I wish so badly that it could be cleaner and i would return in a heartbeat. Others i know who have been coming to Z and now going elsewhere are telling me the exact same thing.

With all due respect, I must say you are mistaken. Apart from Playa Principal, The water at the rest of the beaches (La Madera,La Ropa, Las Gatas) is just fine. I go swimming every day and have never had a problem. I think you are the victim of some bad information! Don't give up on Zihua because of that!

The Mexican tourism is the one that carries a lot of places.
My friends in San Miguel Allende indicate that their restaurants
survive thanks to the Mexican tourist.

I guess that most of the foreign tourism goes to Cabo, Puerto Vallarta
and Cancun. Cabo San Lucas (aka Cabo) is interesting because if I go there, I would
be a minority, being Mexicano. But if I just go to San Jose del Cabo, it
is a small nice Mexican town.

Thanks Paul ...i would love to believe you but frankly It's very confusing ! People say it's clean however at other times say it's one of the most polluted areas of Mexico! I don't see how those can both be true ? The water in the bay looks very murky and brown . The waste ,sewage and runoff flow into it . Who knows what dumping goes on by boats and cruise ships etc. I am having a hard time believing the clean part !

get a small strong container and sterilize it with boiling water. Then take a sample of the water-maybe ankle/knee depth. Screw the lid on tight on the container.

Then find a way to get it to U.S. Almost any County Health Dept can have it analyzed and give you a report, then you will know for sure.

Labrat i meant cruise ships whenever not just this season. Im sure you get my drift. Hopefully my comments wont always be cut up by the same folks... Don't kill the messenger , its just my opinion and several of my friends who are going elsewhere and have said basically the same thing .
I dont live in the USA nor am i going to travel to Zihua to conduct water samples but thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks Paul ...i would love to believe you but frankly It's very confusing ! People say it's clean however at other times say it's one of the most polluted areas of Mexico! I don't see how those can both be true ? The water in the bay looks very murky and brown . The waste ,sewage and runoff flow into it . Who knows what dumping goes on by boats and cruise ships etc. I am having a hard time believing the clean part !

You were very negative when you posted here a lot last year. If you don't want to come here, no one will think bad of you. Just do not say you do not believe people who are here and know what they are talking about. AND in my opinion it has never been one of the most polluted areas of Mexico. Political BS should not be added into this equation and I believe that is what was happening when there were terrible readings. Or they did not know what they were doing in the first place. Opinions and all that stuff.

SSH. Hey Hey goodbye.

Thanks for jumping in with the pile and branding me with your judgements from a previous year Lady M! Very welcoming of you! I believe it was a post of Robs from many months ago that i recall mentioning Z being one of the most polluted beaches in Mexico. I may have misread it. Sorry.
I repeat - I love the area and the many friendships I have formed there since i have been coming for 10 years now. Many of the families i know have been there for generations and they have told me that they no longer go in the bay and that it's very polluted, so my sources aren't entirely without merit...ok cue the hounds , jump !

Thanks for jumping in with the pile and branding me with your judgements from a previous year Lady M! Very welcoming of you! I believe it was a post of Robs from many months ago that i recall mentioning Z being one of the most polluted beaches in Mexico. I may have misread it. Sorry.
I repeat - I love the area and the many friendships I have formed there since i have been coming for 10 years now. Many of the families i know have been there for generations and they have told me that they no longer go in the bay and that it's very polluted, so my sources aren't entirely without merit...ok cue the hounds , jump !

Sorry, Sea Swirl Girl. I tell it like I see it. And my 40+ years coming here have no merit on whether someone is telling the truth or not.

The AI's are not going away, the local business have to not try and compete with them, offer more service good prices an experience.

When Walmart came to Canada some tried to compete and failed, some chose to offer what Walmart could not supply and that was service, service service, good products at a fair price. The AI's have all the free food, same old, day in and day out, watered down drinks etc etc

Come on Ixtapa and zihua retailers and restaurants show the tourists how Mexico really is. After all a tourist is looking for an experience and a good one that they can share with friends and family.

Quite frankly, the water quality issue will always come up from time to time as unfortunately, not like in some other countries/vacation areas, proper testing has not been done in a very long time. So people will guess and sometimes it is educated guesses that may be close to the truth but not always. For one thing, the fact that some folks swim there and are fine doesn't mean much and is purely anecdotal. Plenty of people have been having issues from skin to respiratory issues related possibly to water quality levels. One thing that is not open for debate is the water is not the same quality today that it was 30 years ago. We can't eat the oysters/shells from the bay like I used to do. Some of the beaches are better than others in Zihua and some likely still fine, especially if you take basic precautions like washing after coming out from swimming and making sure not to drink any of that ocean water. The color of the water is not always a good indicator of water quality. Foam on the beach is not necessarily a sign a pollution. But without regular and properly done testing, you can't really tell. But it is a fact that the city waste is not properly handled and a lot of it end up in the bay. As well, run off from the hills during heavy rains brings a lot of pollution in the bay as well. Being a bay has it's own set of problems and benefits. I still love the town, it's people and the views. I'm not an ocean swimmer and quite fine with my pool at the hotel but really wish the city waste problem gets taken care of finally as there is no denying that if the water is still ok now it won't be for long at the rate things are going...

Exactly, the retail and the restaurants are not giving the tourists what they want, what does a tourist want on their vacation--an unforgettable experience---period!

As Stephen Stills wrote, "Paranoia runs deep, Into your heart it will creep!"

You are absolutely correct Sir, in your appraisal of the bay water situation. The bay is LESS polluted right now because it is the dry season. During the rainy season the canal and all effluent from the mountain, the streets and the overflowing sewer lines? or the storm drains(these drain line covers in the streets pop-up) and the water flows from these directly down the street and into town, the canal and out into the bay. If it is not sewer, it still stinks and it is from the untreated mountain effluent.

Similar to Puerto Vallarta 40 years ago where the sewer flooding into streets made a smell so bad it was impossible not to gag. They have corrected that problem for the most part and Zhia needs to do the same. It is not rocket science that the bay is polluted and the e. coli burden and possibly hepatitis contamination is HIGH and I for one one do NOT need an analysis to determine degree of the burden. IT IS TOO MUCH whatever the burden level is! Especially in the wet season!

Discussions about what that burden is, is academic to me and I have NEVER gone in the surf in Principal, Madera or La Ropa for over the 8 yeas of my visiting Zhia. Los Gatos is cleaner, but the whole bay is polluted to some degree. No shellfish should be gathered in the bay, and I believe oysters are harvested from the sea- not the bay. Or at least they should NOT be harvested from the bay. If you like hepatitis, then eat oysters from the bay as there is a potential for contracting that specific disease by eating shellfish from contaminated waters.

Now all the nay sayers jump in and dispute me. The facts are the facts and you can argue about the percentage of contamination, whether it is advisable to swim in these areas or not. It is irrelevant to me- I do NOT swim where I know the pollution is concentrated.

Make your decision where you will swim and I will do likewise. To each their own and more power to ya. Swim where you like. Go to La Ropa and look around. Perhaps you will observe what I have seen and be better able to make a value judgement based on your observations there and elsewhere.

And the uninformed or misinformed will tred on thin ice- for a while!

Discussions about what that burden is, is academic to me and I have NEVER gone in the surf in Principal, Madera or La Ropa for over the 8 yeas of my visiting Zhia. Los Gatos is cleaner.....

Not according to the last reports I recall seeing, which surprised a lot of folks and contradicted widely-held beliefs. Las Gatas came in on par with La Madera, and the pollution figures at both were significantly higher than the two spots at La Ropa where readings were taken.
Of course some argue that none of the readings are credible anyway, for all sorts of nefarious reasons.