But I most certainly recognize the interplay between the military-industrial complex and the drug war in Mexico, for example. In my mind it is all interconnected. But I also believe that the "system" is very complex and probably damn near impossible for any single person to fully comprehend. The average naive voter or citizen can't necessarily be held responsible for what they don't understand, products of a system that doesn't encourage that broad understanding anymore, but rather very specialized knowledge in whatever will "get you a good job". How many people in the U.S. even know that Argentina is accusing the U.S. government right now of importing undeclared weapons, drugs and spy equipment into their country? Not too many I bet. So are they at fault for what your government did? Tough question. On some philosophical level I guess they are, if you truly believe you are a democracy. In that case, then you do share blame. But, in reality, I think most Americans are good people, they're just ignorant about what their government does in their name. The ones who do share the blame, however, are those who know what is going on or have a pretty good idea, and choose to remain wilfully ignorant or turn a blind eye. But when the corruption is so institutionally entrenched, when the system itself is so corrupted, there comes a point when you can't blame the average person for what they have no control over.

So the "US" is not responsible for a drug war murder in Mexico. However, there are most definitely actors within the U.S. who share responsibility for enticing both the drug lords and the government to fight this war. They directly or indirectly place a weapon in the hands of each, and then sit back and watch them duke it out, laughing all the way to the bank afterwards. Not the "US", but rather certain elements within the government and arms industry.

Here is a little analogy to help clarify my point of view with respect to responsibility. Say you go find a bum somewhere. Just for sh*ts and giggles, you dangle $500 in front of him and tell him he can have it, all he has to do is go beat someone up. He goes and does it, gives some good kicks and punches to some random stranger who you really have no connection with, it was just for your personal amusement. He comes back, collects his $500, and goes on his merry way. Who was responsible for the act of violence that took place?

The bum was definitely responsible, he should go to jail. But you were also jointly responsible, because without your enticement, without you dangling a relatively large sum of money in front of a destitute person, that act of violence otherwise would not have taken place. It doesn't matter that you were largely disassociated from what happened, and didn't know the victim. You are still jointly responsible, and should probably go to jail as well. But, I wouldn't blame every single person in California for your actions.

Craig

Guess who ran one of the most violent cartels Mexico has ever seen? The one that began all the "creative" mutilations you hear and read so much about being copied now by others following his footsteps. One of the USA's very own.

Wouldn't be surprised if he was on the US payroll like Osama was.

Nobody in the United States, including everyone in the US government, or anywhere else in the world, is responsible for the decisions and crimes that Mexican drug killers and corrupt Mexican politicians commit.

There is nothing you can claim that will make that fact untrue.

Craig, or Brainiac, whichever you prefer.

The USA creates the market, creates the demand, sells the weapons to BOTH sides, and budgets billions to public servants so they can justify their jobs. Then they practically give the Colombian market to the Mexicans on a silver platter. Do you even keep statistics on the people who die in the USA in narco-related violence? Is it possible to even cite a reliable figure? Is it possible more dope dealers kill each other off on your side of the border? You know, the street gangs and the bikers et al. I believe folks stopped counting them decades ago. Hardly even make back page news any more. Doesn't mean they stopped killing each other. Some law enforcment website probably has some "stats". I'd guess the 10-year average makes Mexico look like Disneyland in comparison.

And ever since Ollie North got busted and took the fall live on CNN it became undeniable that the even US gov't deals in banned intoxicants AND arms smuggling. Oops!

Now many states have relaxed their laws and the common attitude at least towards pot is much more permissive, so why IS there a "war on drugs" and why DO Mexican cartels even need to bother smuggling pot into the USA anymore? Whose interests are really being served? (Hint: It was NEVER a public health issue.)

Do you also sleep at the wheel when you drive?

I see you are no longer claiming the US is responsible for the criminal behavior of Mexican killers and kidnappers; Mexicans are. Good. That's all my point ever was. Perhaps some day Rob will quit pretending he doesn't understand that too. Ahhh, PC.

Craig

> The rest of the world is a big place and your comment a little too general, and the part of it that concerns Mexico is the multi-billion dollar a year market in the USA: source of the narco violence. Check your map, Brainiac!

At your suggestion I checked a Map, Rob. Here's what our maps reveal (your map too).

"...multi-billion dollar a year market in the USA" Our (yours and mine) maps show the market is the USA. That's the country immediately north of the US/Mexican border.

" ...source of the narco violence." Our (yours and mine) maps show the source of the violence, about 35,000 killed now, to be Mexico. That's the country just south of the US/Mexican border.

Brainiac

Very well said, amigo.

Yes, whenever other countries try to do anything the US government doesn't like, instead of respectful diplomacy, the usual recourse has been heavy-handed tactics such as threats to deny aid, restrict travel, rescind funding or impose economic sanctions.

How long has Cuba been suffering a criminal embargo? Meanwhile the USA is "good buddies" with more repressive regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Egypt, not to mention the ones the USA itself imposed such as former regimes in Iran and Chile.

My how the USA has strayed...

Every country in the world didn't independently come to the same conclusion that marijuana and other narcotics should be prohibited and treated the way they are, as a criminal issue rather than a public health issue. These things have been negotiated by treaty and there is strong pressure for countries to adopt the treaties and abide by them. You can't deny that the U.S. government is extremely influential when it comes to negotiating these things.

For example, a few years ago the Government of Canada studied the issue of marijuana, and in a very insightful report recommended that it be legalized. They conclude that normal usage of marijuana isn't any more harmful than the social costs of prohibition (if at all), and that the government should instead aim to prevent at-risk behaviour, such as smoking more than 1 gram / day, through non-criminal prevention strategies. But it isn't legal. It isn't that easy. We have international obligations. And, at the risk of offending your sense of patriotism again, the U.S. government threatens to effectively shut down the border, or at least severely hinder the free flow of goods and people across it, searching every single car for example, if it were legalized.

I don't understand why so many people deny the far-reaching influence of your government. They meddle in the domestic affairs of damn near every country in the world, and you are probably blissfully unaware of 99.9% of what they do outside your own borders.

The rest of the world is a big place and your comment a little too general, and the part of it that concerns Mexico is the multi-billion dollar a year market in the USA: source of the narco violence. Check your map, Brainiac!

Weed and narcotics are illegal to possess to some degree or another in every country in the world. It's not just the United States. For accuracies' sake you might write "the world's failed policy" instead of the "United States' failed policy." Of course, you aren't responsible for what you write. The US is.

Craig

Or what are you suggesting, exactly? That it is their collective responsibility to finish the revolution? Or just to have faith that those corrupt institutions and the ruling classes that control them are acting in the best interests of the "country", and not their own?

Do you think we (USA)will ever learn that we can't be the world's policeman and impose our social values on others. They have to do it themselves. Much better to stay home and police ourselves----

Hell, our politicians can't even see that 57 cents of every federal dollar spent is borrowed money and 58 cents of every dollar goes out in the form of checks to individuals. How long do they think this can go on? We have more than enough problems at home without trying to be the second coming of the Roman Empire.

MAY DAY! MAY DAY! I'm going donw in flames!

He didn't roll down the window. They were attacked. These armored SUVs are built so the window rolls partially down automatically when the vehicle is in a accident so the occupants can escape. An armored vehicle can trap people in as well as keep people out.

Craig

Absolutely agreed. To the detriment of the rest of us.

Craig

It appears that the automobile that those two gringo cops were in cost perhaps one million mexican pesos. Sicarios cannot purchase or have cars armored in mexico easily any more. The PGR is auditing the businesses who armor the cars. These cars are coveted. So they are targets. Those agents were probably not set up at all, they were chosen by a halcone and ambushed by sicarios only for the car.

I can hear the protests "You aren't supposed to rob me, drugs are legal now".

Forgive me for not understanding some of you.

I don't know who the scholar is you are referring to, but let me make my position so clear that even a scholar and a webmaster should have a difficult time disagreeing with it:

You can only believe Mexican individuals are not responsible for their criminal behavior if you think individual Mexican politicians who solicit and accept bribes are not corrupt and individual Mexican men with guns who intentionally kill people are not murderers. But they are corrupt and they are murderers, aren't they?

People in the United States cannot force Mexicans to commit these acts. It is the choice of individual Mexicans and they are responsible for their behavior and decisions the same as everyone else.

Wow. I'm surprised anyone needs this explained.

Craig

You so succinctly reinforced my point - once again denying responsibility for your own behavior. Not you personally, but certain of your countrymen and the results of their institutionalized corruption. Again, your position is, "It's not our fault."

Well, amigo - it is your fault (as a nation) because it is your choice, and your responsibility. Everyone is responsible for his behavior, including Mexicans. Why don't you try supporting the efforts your federal government is doing to get rid of the killers and criminals on your side of the border for a change?

Craig