I guess I'm just an old fart who also is being displaced!

That makes two of us!

Please see the message I posted under "Registering & Using the Message Board" called TIP: Keeping up with discussions

That is a feature that I sometimes use, but not often.

As you wrote however, it is a culture being displaced. It seems to me that back when La Bocana was still open such musicians were easier to find. For me that was one of the things I enjoyed most at La Bocana: seeing an extended family out for a special occasion, enjoying food and the traditional music.

I can't (or rather won't) criticize other musicians and venues ... like the recent post advertising "Eddie Machete" ... because I've never been to that place nor do I know what sort of music it is. He may be terrific for all I know. To each his own taste I suppose. But it sure can't be like the traditional stuff, so I just don't or won't go. I guess I'm just an old fart who also is being displaced!

I know this is an old thread, but it is even more relevant now than ever

Your message rings true Rob. Rather than have this lost in the old thread on the subject may I respectfully suggest that you create a new thread so it's not lost in the "way back"?

¡Vivan Odilón y José!

What you hear is a lifetime of playing the music they love, I usually ask them to play something that they enjoy, I've never been disapointed with them.

Point taken Rob. Although I don't agree 100%, I see your point and am with you in this for the most part.

So much so that if you wish to respond again I'll let you have the last word!

Arturo

Terrific! Gives me a chance to post another of my favorite songs.

I kind of thought you were really mostly with me all along.

And don't get me wrong. I like Jimi and Josie and jazz and chilango rock and talented northerners and a good variety of music for everyone. I'm just making an observation and hoping there's an easy way for everyone to come out a winner. The local musicians I've mentioned this to were all smiles and thanking me for standing up for them.

https://youtu.be/97w7IHvJ7yQ

So much so that if you wish to respond again I'll let you have the last word!

Arturo

I truly hate to see the arrival of the type of tourist who no longer tries to respect or understand our local culture and who simply prefers to bring their me-first attitude along with them. They can ruin a good tourist community.

Remember, culture is something acquired through learning.

Part of the problem could be is that we don't know what to expect to pay for a song or two and it is easier to say no gracias then ask! What should one expect to pay for a song maybe this will help?

How difficult is it to ask? No offense, but your reply sounds like a copout.

The amount depends on the group and how good they are. Fifty or sixty or seventy pesos per song is not unreasonable, or make a deal for several songs. The musicians are flexible. If they're doing a good business their price often comes down for several songs. When things are tough they have less wiggle room to bargain with. Welcome to Mexican economics.

I will go to Rafa's, Daniels, Tango's Litte Suizza etc. to listen to Jimi (isn't he a local yet?) Josie, Isahrai, ONLY when we want to listen to their music. No music there, we stay at home.

It's a free country. Do what you want. I'm just saying your behavior is part of the problem I referred to. Is it okay with you if I make a judgement call on that? You certainly don't have to live by my principles. My comments are as much directed at such clientele as they are the restaurants and musicians. Hopefully instead of playing "who me?" games or otherwise arguing the matter, those of us who agree and who care can simply be aware of the problem and see if there's a way around it without stepping on any toes, bruising egos or causing different hardships. I'm confident the problem can be solved without taking extreme positions or measures.

We often eat at other restaurants, the locals aren't loosing anything from us.

They may not be losing anything, but this is about the wandering musicians, not the restaurants.

If walking down the Paseo del Pescador and a musician is playing at one of the restaurants as we pass by we will often stop to listen. If we stop to listen, we show our appreciation by contributing.

That is not how it works. You pay for the song if you hire them. If you like their music pay for another song. But please don't break with local custom and start tipping them when musicians play for someone else. It can lead to different problems and unhelpful perceptions. Do you also tip the waiter at the next table, or the maid for cleaning the room next to yours? Do you tip the taxi driver who gave someone else a ride, or the bellboy who carried someone else's bags?

I will go to Rafa's, Daniels, Tango's Litte Suizza etc. to listen to Jimi (isn't he a local yet?) Josie, Isahrai, ONLY when we want to listen to their music. No music there, we stay at home.

We often eat at other restaurants, the locals aren't loosing anything from us.

If walking down the Paseo del Pescador and a musician is playing at one of the restaurants as we pass by we will often stop to listen. If we stop to listen, we show our appreciation by contributing.

I dont have any interest in listening to G-L-O-R-I-A at Pacalos but it obviously seems work very well for the winter vacationers. I dont think that big of a crowd would be in there just for the restaurant. However I do enjoy some of the handfull of other talent that has come down from the north and they are indeed very talented. They dont seem to be getting rich by playing 1 - 3 gigs a week.

It just seems to me that if there are maybe 2 - 5 restaurants on a given night (from Centro to La Ropa) mainly during the Gringo season that have the foreign entertainers, who by the way are part of your community, is it really because of these very few venues causing the wandering musicians to grow poorer? You could be very well be right but to me this math doesn't seem to show it.

I listen to plenty of music from other places, but not at local bars or restaurants. That's why I have my own sound system and portable music player with earphones.

The pan pipes are nice, but they're Andean, not Mexican. However, they don't clash too badly with our local culture, just like Cuban music also fits in well here.

Opera in Mexico City is nice. It is a cosmopolitan city by its own definition. Zihuatanejo is exactly the opposite. Orchestras in Oaxaca City are nice, too, and they are expected to play certain orchestral compositions, but the fact that you even mention these things suggests to me that you either miss the point or don't care.

I have heard a lot of chilango rock'n'roll blaring on our street this year from a new open-air bar. Perhaps if they at least turned down their volume while cultural events are happening just across the street in the zócalo I wouldn't have such a poor opinion of them. A little respect goes a long way here. And that's all I'm asking for from you.

Why do you tip musicians 50 pesos who are playing for someone else? That's about what they get per song, and they do not expect free money for doing nothing for you. If you like their music then hire them to play for you, but please don't encourage inflation and rate-busting by tipping exhorbitantly when it isn't customary. Such practices can actually cause more harm than good for our community in the larger scheme of things.

We live here 3 or four months a year. I very much enjoy traditional Mexican music and listen to it frequently. What about the pan pipes? I know there is at least one group from other Central and South American countries that play here. What group do you put them in? I also tip well (at least 50 pesos) even though they are not playing for me, if the music is good and much of it is. Unfortunately, too often the music is terrible--off key, out of tune instruments, etc. (but at least they are trying to do something and not begging).

I do however also enjoy live classical, jazz, blues and some rock and roll.Should I have to do without that while here?

Back in our summer home in Victoria BC our favourite pub frequently has latino bands playing Mexican and South American music. Do you infer that I shouldn't go there to listen to the "foreign" musicians playing latino music, but should drive to town and only support Canadian buskers?

I also tend to frequent small local restaurants that serve real Mexican food, but sometimes like a change. Do you infer also that we shouldn't frequent restaurants or other businesses run by "foreigners" until they have gained full Mexican citizenship?

Mexico is becoming cosmopolitan bit by bit; 20 years ago we enjoyed Classical music in the zocalo in Oaxaca, performed by that city's symphony orchestra. Last year my niece was in Mexico City and Guanajuato singing opera. Is this bad because it's not Mexican or Traditional?

Like it or not Rob, Zihuatanejo is a tourist destination. Some stay only a week, some of us stay much longer making it a second home. As such it will have foreign influences. Some of this I enjoy, some (much) I do not, but let's not ban foreign content just because it's not traditional or Mexican in origin.