I am seeking advice and input from the community. Thanks Rob for providing this platform and keeping it updated it with 'Z' rated news.
I am currently sitting on the fence in regards to my upcoming trip on Jan. 3. I have been following the thread to Z or not to Z, started by Maggie.
It will be remarkably easy to get to Zihua. Getting back home to the 'land of ice and snow' is a different story. I still think it may be worth the extra money and all the hoops I must jump through to make it work.
Those of you coming in February(Timmac?) may be fortunate in avoiding the omicron surge. The data seems encouraging. I am following the daily talks given by Dr. John Campbell on Youtube, (https://www.youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching) to help inform my decision.
The property that I am booked with in the Playa Madera neighborhood has refused to waive any of the cancellation fee with a non-essential travel advisory in place. I find it to be quite a harsh policy in that the cancellation fee amounts to half the cost of the reservation and came into effect two months ago. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I am trying to be cognizant of the economic hardships that the people of Zihua are going through. I have tried asking the property if I could rebook or receive credit for a future trip. I think that the advisory may be lifted in the next few weeks appreciating that travel related activities related to covid are in constant flux.
Zihua has been so good to me over the years. Am I being too selfish thinking that it is
essential that I go fishing, or go to the market daily in el Centro, or go out to enjoy the fantastic local cuisine, or go outside to enjoy the incredible blue skies and warm temperatures? Gracias everyone.
First if you are not vaxxed and boosted, it’s probably not a good idea to travel anywhere now. Ideally the vax and booster should be either Pfizer or Moderna. Other vaccines boosted with either Pfizer or Moderna would come close to that level of protection. Any other combination is not likely to provide much protection. While it is likely the Omicron variant is less severe, it is too early to be confident in this. Even though it may be less severe, since vastly increased numbers are contracting it, the net effect in terms of absolute numbers still seem to be straining many hospitals. Thousands of flights have been cancelled worldwide because aircrews are testing positive leading to a shortage of pilots and flight attendants.
Numbers of positive tests in Zihuatanejo are probably not an accurate measure as they only test symptomatic people. In the states around 40% of positive tests are in asymptomatic patients. Although people say that masking is well followed in Zihuatanejo, our personal experience right after Thanksgiving downtown showed at most 25% of people masked. Subsequent videos showed similar numbers. Although people were outside, given the level contagion of this variant, unmasked groups, even outside, increases risk.
Should you chose to travel, I would do so only with N-95 or KN-95 masks. Well fitting surgical masks are around 65% effective. Most cloth masks are Covid theater. Indoor restaurants would not be a good idea, but luckily that’s easy enough to avoid. Walking everywhere would be safest. Taxis, with masks and open windows, would be relatively safe. I would avoid the combis with multiple people and poor air flow.
Luckily we don’t travel until mid February and are hopeful that things will be more clear by then.
Travel to Z
by Padrino
, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Monday, December 27, 2021, 13:14 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
First if you are not vaxxed and boosted, ...
Wise advice from TimMac!
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 13:32 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
Thanks for taking the time to respond Timmac. I have been doing a lot of due diligence
trying to make an informed decision, but I am still sitting on the fence. I have tried to
educate myself with the recommended procedures, practices, precautions and advice, including boosting my immune system with extra vitamin D and Zinc. I have had three jabs. Omicron is so transmissible that the data suggests we will all catch it soon enough. I am not too concerned about catching it. I am concerned about the well-being of others and put them ahead of my personal agenda. The real problem for me lies in whether I want to face the prospect of quarantining in a hotel room for possibly days when I get home waiting for test results at a time when the health system may not support the number of people that need to use it. That's why I reached out to the property to try and delay my trip two or three weeks. I am only booked for two weeks. If I need to stay in Zihua longer, I have the flexibility to do so. Westjet is being very accommodating in case I need to change or cancel a flight. Thanks again.
Travel to Z
by Padrino
, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Monday, December 27, 2021, 13:36 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
If I need to stay in Zihua longer, I have the flexibility to do so.
Problem solved! Spring does not start in 2022 until March 20th!
Thanks for taking the time to respond Timmac. I have been doing a lot of due diligence
trying to make an informed decision, but I am still sitting on the fence. I have tried to
educate myself with the recommended procedures, practices, precautions and advice, including boosting my immune system with extra vitamin D and Zinc. I have had three jabs. Omicron is so transmissible that the data suggests we will all catch it soon enough. I am not too concerned about catching it. I am concerned about the well-being of others and put them ahead of my personal agenda. The real problem for me lies in whether I want to face the prospect of quarantining in a hotel room for possibly days when I get home waiting for test results at a time when the health system may not support the number of people that need to use it. That's why I reached out to the property to try and delay my trip two or three weeks. I am only booked for two weeks. If I need to stay in Zihua longer, I have the flexibility to do so. Westjet is being very accommodating in case I need to change or cancel a flight. Thanks again.
If those three jabs were not Moderna or Pfizer, or at the very least the third being Pfizer or Moderna, you have very little protection. While there is no harm in taking supplements, there are few if any, studies that show benefit. While Omnicron may well be not as severe, a few folks are getting quite I’ll and the health care system in Zihuatanejo is similar to that you would find in rural Canada or USA. Another possible challenge would be if Canada (or for that matter the USA) changes the rules about returning.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 14:54 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
Thanks again for you thoughtful response. My jabs were all mRNA vaccine (Pfizer). A study out of Israel by Dr. Michael Cohen shows the benefits of taking vitamin D to boost immune response to face covid. If you have time you can check it out here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9h-XQm2qEY
Travel to Z
by cd69
, Winnipeg,MB,Canada, Monday, December 27, 2021, 15:29 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
Being Canadian and with our numbers being out of control all across the country and our government telling us to stay home unless essential travel, flying to Zihua in a week is playing with fire at best. If you were in 6 weeks from now, around mid-February like Tim and myself are, there is some hope. But at the moment, if things do not improve drastically soon, you may not only be stuck in Zihua due to exposure while going to Zihua or at destination, you may not even have a flight back due to flights cancelations. Several countries are starting to block flights/visitors from other countries and I would not be surprised if Canada goes that route with the ever-climbing numbers we are seeing.
I would like to point out also that this YOuTube video is hardly a true scientific reviewed study, especially regarding covid. There is a dime a dozen of such claims online with very little scientific validation. As for your comment you are not worried yourself if you contract covid, I really wonder how you can say this. The top world scientists are not even sure at the moment what are the implications for down the road for those that did contract covid and recovered and how it can possibly affect you in the future. There is also this misconception it is only severe in older folks with health issues. We have a 31 year old member of our track team that was supposed to go to the Olympic games this past summer that was in the best shape of his life. He contracted covid while waiting for his 2nd shot and is still struggling being a long hauler. He can barely go up a flight of stairs without being tired. I would be very concerned of contracting this virus.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 15:35 (1780 days ago) @ cd69
Thanks for the time you took to respond and for the valuable input. Appreciated indeed!
Vitamin D is unlikely to hurt you. I trust very little of what the “doctor du jour” says in an interview. I put more faith in studies published in recognized journals.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:01 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
Agreed. But until then It may be hard to ignore the published study that involved 1200 patients at the Galilee Medical Center Between April 2020 and February 2021. Here is the published study. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.04.21258358v1
It has not been peer reviewed. The conclusions are compelling. Thanks again for your time and consideration.
Travel to Z
by The Fez
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:23 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
The conclusions mean nothing until the study is peer reviewed, unfortunately.
Not sure I’d call it compelling. Only 253 patients had Vitamin D levels measured of those measured some measurements were 2 years before their positive Covid test. It hard to imagine that a low Vitamin D level 2 years ago had anything to do with developing Covid. It would be more convincing if the levels were obtained a few months before the positive test. There is also the problem with comorbidities possibly playing a part.
While they claim statistical significance, they do it by including all of the Vitamin D deficient patients, some of which (how many?) had 2 year old vitamin D levels.
So while it is interesting, in my mind it is a long way from proving anything. That said, unless taken in large doses Vitamin D can’t hurt you, unless, of course, you have a history of kidney stones, which could increase their frequency.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:57 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
Stay awesome MD Timmac. Thanks for all your efforts today.
Travel to Z
by Padrino
, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Monday, December 27, 2021, 18:41 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
That said, unless taken in large doses Vitamin D can’t hurt you.
Staying in Zihua gives one plenty of Vitamin D!
Just don't stay out too long in the sun ...
First if you are not vaxxed and boosted, it’s probably not a good idea to travel anywhere now. Ideally the vax and booster should be either Pfizer or Moderna. Other vaccines when boosted with either Pfizer or Moderna would come close to that level of protection. Any other combination is not likely to provide much protection. While it is likely the Omicron variant is less severe, it is too early to be confident in this. Even though it may be less severe, since vastly increased numbers are contracting it, the net effect in terms of absolute numbers still seem to be straining many hospitals. Thousands of flights have been cancelled worldwide because aircrews are testing positive leading to a shortage of pilots and flight attendants.
Numbers of positive tests in Zihuatanejo are probably not an accurate measure as they only test symptomatic people. In the states around 40% of positive tests are in asymptomatic patients. Although people say that masking is well followed in Zihuatanejo, our personal experience right after Thanksgiving downtown showed at most 25% of people masked. Subsequent videos showed similar numbers. Although people were outside, given the level contagion of this variant, unmasked groups, even outside, increases risk.
Should you chose to travel, I would do so only with N-95 or KN-95 masks. Well fitting surgical masks are around 65% effective. Most cloth masks are Covid theater. Indoor restaurants would not be a good idea, but luckily that’s easy enough to avoid. Walking everywhere would be safest. Taxis, with masks and open windows, would be relatively safe. I would avoid the combis with multiple people and poor air flow.
Luckily we don’t travel until mid February and are hopeful that things will be more clear by then.
Excellent post containing very wise and intelligent advice & information 
I agree with everything Tim said.
We have a rental, so understand what the people you are renting from are going through. When you made the agreement to rent the place in Madera, you knew what the cancellation policy was. Everyone knows that COVID is an issue and has to make their own decisions as to whether or not they are willing to bet on the current situation when reservations are made. January and February are the, "make it or break it" months for rentals here. By cancelling this close to your dates and getting a refund, you are possibly causing the business to not survive another season. Things are very tough.
We have had to discuss what we are going to do if we have a cancellation and what we can do if a guest tests positive and has to stay longer than they had planned. That isn't a fun discussion, but it wouldn't be fun for the person involved either. It works both ways.
Good luck with your decision. Do come visit! We live here and wouldn't live anywhere else.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 13:35 (1780 days ago) @ Talley Ho
Your comments are appreciated and not unreasonable at all.
Travel to Z
by wisconsinjuan
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 15:02 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
Fly back to the US and have a friend pick you up and drive home to Canada. I know several people who did that last spring.
Travel to Z
by The Fez
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:25 (1780 days ago) @ wisconsinjuan
Things are a little bit tighter than last Spring at the border. The fines are hefty.
Travel to Z
by Ironwood
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 21:22 (1780 days ago) @ wisconsinjuan
Fly back to the US and have a friend pick you up and drive home to Canada. I know several people who did that last spring.
What does that manoeuvre accomplish? Anyone returning to Canada by land has to provide proof of a negative PCR test done within 72 hours of the time one is crossing the border. Believe me, there's no getting around it.
Travel to Z
by opalnoir, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:03 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
I feel your pain. We are booked on a flight out of Toronto on January 9th for two weeks.
As most Canadians who are considering going, we are double vaxed and boosted. As you mentioned, the biggest problem is getting home should we test positive for the virus, most likely not having any symptoms. If I understand correctly what you have written, you seem a little confused about the going home procedure. You will not be getting on a plane without a negative PCR test and upon arrival in Canada you MAY be asked to submit to another test. You immediately continue to your home where you quarantine until you receive confirmation of a negative test. This usually takes 2 -3 days. They are talking about testing everybody upon arrival at some point but have not yet done so. Should there be a cancellation of all flights to Mexico like what happened before, the airline that you flew with will be sending some planes to pick you up, asap.
We have purchased our KN95 masks which I understand work extremely well.
We have also purchased a membership in Covac Global travel services which guarantees you Covid-19 evacuation and repatriation with just a positive test and one symptom even if it is just a headache or tiredness. It is expensive but we would lose far more money not going because we too would lose all our money paid for our accommodations. It is not an option for us to stay another two weeks.
If Air Canada cancels our flight then it is what it is.
We will have to accept our fate...
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 16:14 (1780 days ago) @ opalnoir
Thanks for your clarification on arrival tests and possible quarantine while you await results. I really appreciate the time you took to respond.
Travel to Z
by maggie, Monday, December 27, 2021, 17:17 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
I too did a great deal of due diligence..
Weighing the risks of travel with the risks of mental collapse.
And here I am...
I am an optimist and I think dwelling on the worst case scenario is a mistake. might happen, sure but then again maybe not.
I am in the old ish demographic but my immune system is robust ( I feel due to vitamins , healthy diet and moderation plus the occasional glass of wine stress inhibitor, agree or disagree it’s worked for me for the past long decades...
here you will eat fresh fruit vitamin c, seafood and fish omegas and all the vitamin D you can absorb and more! ???????? plus swimming in the ocean and daily walks on the beach!!! Health regime extraordinaire.
I’ve been here a week and my stress level plummeted. My vote is come enjoy and do whatever you’ve been doing in Canada. Also returning isn’t such a big deal yes the government is making it difficult but my understanding is we can go home and await the results.. and who knows by then they’ll just give us a rapid test kit to take home... I’ve decided to channel
Baba Ram Dass and Soy Aqui Ahora or Be Here Now 
I feel very safe here.. Staff at restaurants and in the hotel are masked and all seem to be following the protocols. And I know that everyone’s happy to making a little money... it’s been an incredibly difficult year for all of us but for some way harder than others.
Happy safe travels
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 17:26 (1780 days ago) @ maggie
I was wondering if you would chime in Maggie. Thanks for your post. I thought I was close to making a decision. Back up on the fence again.
Travel to Z
by maggie, Monday, December 27, 2021, 18:33 (1780 days ago) @ ZeeZee
I agonized over this and can very much relate. I was hoping for a burning bush or some other sign, biblical or otherwise, to help with the decision. Alas no signs just me weighing it all... Very tough call. Good luck and let us know what you do decide.
Well, first you’ll have to test negative to get in the plane.
I’d worry much more about unmasked groups on the street than I would about masked waiters in restaurants. It is pretty easy to avoid crowds. I’ve really wanted to try the new “food court” but it’s simply too crowded.
While I agree it’s not good to dwell on the worst case scenario, it’s wise to have a plan Dow what to do if it happens.
Travel to Z
by maggie, Monday, December 27, 2021, 18:19 (1780 days ago) @ Timmac
Expect the best! Always have a backup plan just in case!
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by etaub1@aol.com, Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 17:15 (1779 days ago) @ maggie
I'm an 80+ year old physician hoping to visit Zihuat on Jan 15 but still very conflicted. Here's a good inspiration from the NY Times this week.
"Dr. Robert Wachter, professor and chair of the Department of Medicine at UC San Francisco flew to Florida to be with family, wearing an N95 mask and keeping the vent above his seat open. He brought a rapid test kit that he used when he woke up with a sniffle. He is fully vaccinated and boosted, as was everyone else at the holiday dinner — which, he said, cut the chance of contracting the virus by 95%.
Before Omicron, he said he started thinking and writing about our response to the pandemic. He recognized that “a version of COVID will be with us forever. It will ebb and flow, but it will never go away completely.”
Then it hit him: If he does not do the things that bring him joy now, when he’s vaccinated and boosted and the world is not locked down, he never will.
And, barring some dramatic change, that is no way to live."
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Mexalberta
, Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 17:20 (1779 days ago) @ etaub1@aol.com
If I was 80 I would have the same thoughts.
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Timmac
, Steilacoom, WA, Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 18:46 (1779 days ago) @ etaub1@aol.com
I'm an 80+ year old physician hoping to visit Zihuat on Jan 15 but still very conflicted. Here's a good inspiration from the NY Times this week.
"Dr. Robert Wachter, professor and chair of the Department of Medicine at UC San Francisco flew to Florida to be with family, wearing an N95 mask and keeping the vent above his seat open. He brought a rapid test kit that he used when he woke up with a sniffle. He is fully vaccinated and boosted, as was everyone else at the holiday dinner — which, he said, cut the chance of contracting the virus by 95%.
Before Omicron, he said he started thinking and writing about our response to the pandemic. He recognized that “a version of COVID will be with us forever. It will ebb and flow, but it will never go away completely.”
Then it hit him: If he does not do the things that bring him joy now, when he’s vaccinated and boosted and the world is not locked down, he never will.And, barring some dramatic change, that is no way to live."
Keep in mind he’s vaxxed and boosted, wore an N-95 mask and tested himself. So while he did what he intended to do he took reasonable precautions, including only being around others that were vaxxed and boosted.
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by etaub1@aol.com, Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 19:43 (1779 days ago) @ Timmac
Yes, of course. Vaccination including boosters, masking, and caution around others is necessary..first and foremost!
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Timmac
, Steilacoom, WA, Tuesday, December 28, 2021, 20:45 (1779 days ago) @ etaub1@aol.com
Not quite——-Not just masking but masking with N-95, or equivalent. In our trips and when we walk around town at home and elsewhere, we see very few N-95 masks. The majority are cloth masks, which are around 35% effective at best. In mind Covid theater. No question N-95s are uncomfortable, but if you are serious about decreasing risk it’s really the only way to,go.
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Padrino
, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 11:25 (1778 days ago) @ Timmac
Not quite——-Not just masking but masking with N-95, or equivalent.
Dear TimMac,
My apologies as I am still a bit confused about the N-95 versus disposable surgical masks debate. Is it true that the N-95 masks protect the wearer of the mask but do not help protect those around the wearer if the wearer is infected? That is what I think I was able to glean from reputable websites such as this Mayo Clinic offering.
Also, many of these same websites recommend that we not purchase the N-95 masks as they need to be reserved for health care providers. However, that may be old information as the supply may have more than caught up with the demand.
Many thanks for your professional insight!
Respectfully submitted,
Padrino
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Timmac
, Steilacoom, WA, Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 14:46 (1778 days ago) @ Padrino
KN-95 and N-95 masks are widely available. I use Amazon. The caution in the Mayo Clinic article is for N-95 masks with valves, which do not filter exhaled air. Stay away from them. These masks have always been better. During the initial phases the reason they were not recommended was because there was a shortage and health care workers got priority.
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by islandgirl
, Cowichan Valley, Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 19:57 (1778 days ago) @ Timmac
Question(s), please.
How often do you need to change an N95 mask? When should you dispose of one and wear a new one?
A public health nurse gave all of our staff a mandatory masking lesson. She said the paper surgical masks (white on one side, blue on other) were only good for about 30 minutes, that once they were wet from condensation (your breath) they were no longer effective. We were told to never reuse a mask, unless it was one that could be laundered. I know some people just keep one crumpled up in their pocket and they pull it out for use repeatedly, days in, days out. (Another good reason to distance).
It would be good for people to know the difference between good masking and ineffective masking.
Thanks!
For All Of Us: A Great Message!
by Timmac
, Steilacoom, WA, Wednesday, December 29, 2021, 20:51 (1778 days ago) @ islandgirl
Surgical masks are effective for around four hours, less if they get wet.
8 hours for N-95 is supposed to be the limit, again less if the get wet.
Neither are supposed to be reused.
That said, we know the virus dies on a surface without moisture in 72 hours. So if the mask is not damaged and is allowed to completely dry, it could be reused after 72 hours. They say they could be reused 5 times if they aren’t damaged.
We mask religiously in groups, but avoid groups as much as possible. We have eaten at an indoor restaurant twice since this started. Both times were in NYC, prior to omicron, and vaccination cards were required to enter and they were operating at 50% occupancy.
As you two know, we live here.
We eat out for breakfast probably 5 times a week. We seldom eat dinner out because we love to cook and have two lovely kitchens.
However, we have really wanted to try the food court, but just haven't been able to bring ourselves to try it.
Travel to Z
by Mexalberta
, Monday, December 27, 2021, 19:08 (1780 days ago) @ maggie
You need a PCR to get on the return flight to Canada
Some Canadians are in Cancun now and can’t go. back to their hotel.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 13:20 (1774 days ago) @ Mexalberta
edited by ZeeZee, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 14:29
That was well done.
Travel to Z
by Amiga de Montreal, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 14:10 (1774 days ago) @ ZeeZee
New travel restrictions came out Dec. 31 for Canadians from Transport Minister Marc Garneau. Beginning Jan. 7, all Canadians regardless of the outcome of their PCR test must quarantine for 14 days upon return. They will be increasing surveillance under the Quarantine Act with penalties up to 6 months in jail and $750,000 in fines for those caught not quarantining. Serious business and the reason I cancelled my Jan. 3 trip. If I was coming for several months it would be a different story.
Your are mistaken, our Transport Minister is now Omar Alghabra and you are not obliged to quarantine if you have received two doses of Covid vaccine. What you are referring to was what was announced LAST YEAR (2020) in december not this year (2021)… you cancelled based on false informations.
Travel to Z
by ZeeZee
, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 14:32 (1774 days ago) @ Amiga de Montreal
Merci. Je suis un imbecille!
Travel to Z
by Mexalberta
, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 15:11 (1774 days ago) @ ZeeZee
Now that was well done
Travel to Z
by Diesel, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 14:30 (1774 days ago) @ ZeeZee
Arrival tests and possible quarantine while you await results
As a fully vaccinated traveller, you can travel to your place of quarantine, including on connecting flights, without waiting for your arrival test results (if selected for testing), unless it is determined at the border that you do not have a suitable quarantine plan.
Who must take an arrival test if selected to do so upon arrival
Upon your entry to Canada by air or at a land border crossing, the border services officer may notify you that you have been randomly selected for a mandatory arrival test.
Requirements for children accompanying parents:
children accompanying a parent selected for a test must follow the same rules as children of all vaccinated travellers
children selected for a test must quarantine, whether or not their parent(s) are not required to do so if they weren't selected
Fully vaccinated travellers are not exempt from mandatory randomized arrival testing.
Find out if your travel is exempt from arrival testing
Travel to Z
by Diesel, Sunday, January 02, 2022, 14:32 (1774 days ago) @ Diesel
Who is exempt from arrival testing
Already recovered: Travellers who provide a positive COVID-19 molecular pre-entry test result, conducted at least 14 and no more than 180 days (starting January 15, 2022, between 10 and 180 days ago) before their scheduled flight or arrival at the land border crossing, are exempt from arrival testing (starting January 15, 2022, between 10 and 180 days ago)
Travellers arriving by boat
Children under the age of 5
Crew and essential service providers already exempt from arrival testing continue to be exempt


