Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Monday, November 27, 2023, 08:27 (1078 days ago)

Dear Friends,

This is a very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo. However, I wanted to share it with my favorite online community. Please accept my apologies to anyone offended.

White contractors wouldn't remove Confederate statues. So a Black man did.

“The Negro … put up the Lee monument and should the time come, will be there to take it down.” -- written in 1890

Note: Link is good for thirty days from post.

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by nicatnit, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 06:48 (1077 days ago) @ Padrino

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history. Not thinking that this would happen in Mexico with its historical figures that are now not popular with a certain political persuasion. I don’t quite understand why you posted this article link on this site how does it relate to Mexico? Is there a movement in Mexico to rewrite history too? Oh that’s right he said it didn’t have anything to do with Mexico, so why post it in the first place?

Avatar

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 08:32 (1077 days ago) @ nicatnit

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history. Not thinking that this would happen in Mexico with its historical figures that are now not popular with a certain political persuasion. I don’t quite understand why you posted this article link on this site how does it relate to Mexico? Is there a movement in Mexico to rewrite history too? Oh that’s right he said it didn’t have anything to do with Mexico, so why post it in the first place?

As a Southerner and kin to some of the personalities depicted by those statues, I find the article extremely relevant and right on. My ancester Gen. Lee made it known that he never wanted statues erected to him after the fall of the South, and I can't imagine my other ancestor President Jefferson Davis would've been too hot on the idea either. You don't idolize traitors and losers. Of course, today's cult followers will disagree.

To date, I'm only aware of one statue removed erroneously due to over-emotional undereducated fervor: the Castleman Statue that used to stand in my childhood neighborhood of Cherokee Triangle in the Highlands of Louisville at the intersection of Cherokee Parkway and Cherokee Rd. Though he served in the Confederacy, he redeemed himself later fighting for the Union, particularly in Cuba (oops, another one of those U.S. wars based on lies) and in his contributions to Louisville including for integration way before its time. The statue depicted him on a famous horse he owned wearing civilian garb, and the statue was intended to honor the horse. But the fanatics defiled it, threw paint on it, and clamored stubbornly for its removal ignoring any facts simply because some idiot included it in the Registry of Confederate Monuments or some such nonsense, something it wasn't. Louisville was a border region where families were divided, and many Louisvillians were quite progressive for the day, as they still are, something difficult to understand for folks not from the region.

Mexicans clamored for years to remove the statue in Mexico City depicting the monster Cristóbal Colón and to stop recognizing him as anything but a lost traveler, a cruel human being and a wannabe emperor. Of course the Spaniards and their "pureblood" descendants got bent out of shape over it, but fuggem. We now observe Día de la Raza in Mexico, but not Día de Cristóbal Colón.

Avatar

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by frostbite @, Hamilton MT, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 09:34 (1077 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

It's a tricky situation. Obviously, history should be remembered, but how? Only in history books? Depending what side you lean toward, the same general can be considered a hero, or a scumbag. On the one hand, I think that removing statues is an attempt to deny history, on the other hand I'd have a shitconniption if someone tried to erect a statue of Adolf Hitler. Where do you draw the line?

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by Ottawa Joe, Friday, December 01, 2023, 09:54 (1074 days ago) @ frostbite

Books...who even has a library card today? My great grandkids will have no idea who those people were unless they are very academic and have a need to research history The internet where most people get their historical information (well there and Disnneyworld) will change peoples knowledge of their own history.

Canadians on this site have seen statues of John A. Macdonald be taken down one not very kindly in Montreal where it was pulled down. He is one of the Fathers of Confederation the first Prime Minister of our country. Some say he had slaves well no he married the daughter of a slave owner in Trinidad but he is concidered the architect of Residential Schools in Canada for indigenous kids. (US had them along with Mexico) That is a very black eye in the history of Canada and should be condenmed and appologized for but that does not mean we should wipe out the memory of our first prime minister and all the good things he influenced.

So should all those statues of Confederate leaders be melted down and recast into only people that did good (by todays standards) or should some of them remain so that youth can be educated as to some of the wrongs they did and the true history of the south?

Avatar

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Friday, December 01, 2023, 10:14 (1074 days ago) @ Ottawa Joe

Books...who even has a library card today? My great grandkids will have no idea who those people were unless they are very academic and have a need to research history The internet where most people get their historical information (well there and Disnneyworld) will change peoples knowledge of their own history.

Canadians on this site have seen statues of John A. Macdonald be taken down one not very kindly in Montreal where it was pulled down. He is one of the Fathers of Confederation the first Prime Minister of our country. Some say he had slaves well no he married the daughter of a slave owner in Trinidad but he is concidered the architect of Residential Schools in Canada for indigenous kids. (US had them along with Mexico) That is a very black eye in the history of Canada and should be condenmed and appologized for but that does not mean we should wipe out the memory of our first prime minister and all the good things he influenced.

So should all those statues of Confederate leaders be melted down and recast into only people that did good (by todays standards) or should some of them remain so that youth can be educated as to some of the wrongs they did and the true history of the south?

Statues don't educate. Teachers do. We don't glorify traitors, seditionists or insurrectionists (unless you're a Republican MAGAt cult follower). I think the likenesses of Confederate generals carved into Stone Mountain in Georgia also needs to be removed just like so much trashy graffiti. (I'm not too keen on Mount Rushmore, either, but that's a different story.)

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by Ottawa Joe, Saturday, December 02, 2023, 10:06 (1073 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

I think the British would tend to disagree with that statement Rob, in fact I see the USA and many other countries going out of their way to glorify traitors, insurectionists etc. as they were on the winning team. When there is nothing left to point at and AI has completely re-written history at the behest of a liar like Trump then what will the teacher know to teach?
What is that comment about forgetting history and then repeating it?

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by victorio, Sunday, December 03, 2023, 00:18 (1072 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Books...who even has a library card today? My great grandkids will have no idea who those people were unless they are very academic and have a need to research history The internet where most people get their historical information (well there and Disnneyworld) will change peoples knowledge of their own history.

Canadians on this site have seen statues of John A. Macdonald be taken down one not very kindly in Montreal where it was pulled down. He is one of the Fathers of Confederation the first Prime Minister of our country. Some say he had slaves well no he married the daughter of a slave owner in Trinidad but he is concidered the architect of Residential Schools in Canada for indigenous kids. (US had them along with Mexico) That is a very black eye in the history of Canada and should be condenmed and appologized for but that does not mean we should wipe out the memory of our first prime minister and all the good things he influenced.

So should all those statues of Confederate leaders be melted down and recast into only people that did good (by todays standards) or should some of them remain so that youth can be educated as to some of the wrongs they did and the true history of the south?


Statues don't educate. Teachers do. We don't glorify traitors, seditionists or insurrectionists (unless you're a Republican MAGAt cult follower). I think the likenesses of Confederate generals carved into Stone Mountain in Georgia also needs to be removed just like so much trashy graffiti. (I'm not too keen on Mount Rushmore, either, but that's a different story.)

Hola
What about what is happening in Zihua right now? They are rebuilding a monument to corruption by rebuilding the Parthenon. That "monument" should be torn down and the land given to its rightful owners. Has the mayor poured more concrete up there? If not why is it happening? I personally with never step foot there.

Avatar

Excellent Article Relevant to Me

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, December 03, 2023, 08:14 (1072 days ago) @ victorio

Books...who even has a library card today? My great grandkids will have no idea who those people were unless they are very academic and have a need to research history The internet where most people get their historical information (well there and Disnneyworld) will change peoples knowledge of their own history.

Canadians on this site have seen statues of John A. Macdonald be taken down one not very kindly in Montreal where it was pulled down. He is one of the Fathers of Confederation the first Prime Minister of our country. Some say he had slaves well no he married the daughter of a slave owner in Trinidad but he is concidered the architect of Residential Schools in Canada for indigenous kids. (US had them along with Mexico) That is a very black eye in the history of Canada and should be condenmed and appologized for but that does not mean we should wipe out the memory of our first prime minister and all the good things he influenced.

So should all those statues of Confederate leaders be melted down and recast into only people that did good (by todays standards) or should some of them remain so that youth can be educated as to some of the wrongs they did and the true history of the south?


Statues don't educate. Teachers do. We don't glorify traitors, seditionists or insurrectionists (unless you're a Republican MAGAt cult follower). I think the likenesses of Confederate generals carved into Stone Mountain in Georgia also needs to be removed just like so much trashy graffiti. (I'm not too keen on Mount Rushmore, either, but that's a different story.)


Hola
What about what is happening in Zihua right now? They are rebuilding a monument to corruption by rebuilding the Parthenon. That "monument" should be torn down and the land given to its rightful owners. Has the mayor poured more concrete up there? If not why is it happening? I personally with never step foot there.

Yes, our local PRI mayor has received millions of pesos from the state government to "refurbish" one of the greatest monuments to PRI corruption ever. Since I'm unaware that the current mayor has ever allowed open bidding on any public contract (there have been no public notices), I can only guess that it's his construction materials being "bought" with the money budgeted, surely with a nice percentage for him because that's "the way it's done" here, and though budgets are usually excessive, nothing is ever left over or returned to the coffers. Even if you go over budget here, there's no penalty. You simply stop work until everyone is clamoring for the project to be finished and the state coughs up more money.

Personally, I would've preferred to see the land sold and the money used to compensate the VICTIMS of El Negro Durazo for their losses, including my wife's family who was threatened personally by El Negro to give him the title to land they owned adjacent to his property. But victim compensation hasn't ever been discussed by any politician that I'm aware of. They're all too excited to get their cut, simulate their jobs and move up the political ladder. I find it disgusting, and it's one more reason why I have no respect for our local mayor.

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by Yandosan, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 09:34 (1077 days ago) @ nicatnit

Well, the powers that be could simply remove his post. But that would be stupid, and wrong.

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 10:31 (1077 days ago) @ nicatnit

Now, how did I know that Nicanit would be the first to respond?

Avatar

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Tuesday, November 28, 2023, 10:36 (1077 days ago) @ Padrino

Now, how did I know that Nicanit would be the first to respond?

Because he drives a pick-em-upper truck? ;-)

Long Live Benedict Arnold?

by Little Guy @, Saturday, December 02, 2023, 17:17 (1073 days ago) @ nicatnit

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history. Not thinking that this would happen in Mexico with its historical figures that are now not popular with a certain political persuasion. I don’t quite understand why you posted this article link on this site how does it relate to Mexico? Is there a movement in Mexico to rewrite history too? Oh that’s right he said it didn’t have anything to do with Mexico, so why post it in the first place?

Do you endorse statues in the US to Benedict Arnold? John Wilkes Booth? Julius Rosenberg and Ethel Rosenberg? Lee Harvey Oswald? Sirhan Sirhan? They are all “part of American history”.

Next you’ll be suggesting a statue of the failed former president.

Avatar

Long Live Benedict Arnold?

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, December 03, 2023, 08:16 (1072 days ago) @ Little Guy

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history. Not thinking that this would happen in Mexico with its historical figures that are now not popular with a certain political persuasion. I don’t quite understand why you posted this article link on this site how does it relate to Mexico? Is there a movement in Mexico to rewrite history too? Oh that’s right he said it didn’t have anything to do with Mexico, so why post it in the first place?


Do you endorse statues in the US to Benedict Arnold? John Wilkes Booth? Julius Rosenberg and Ethel Rosenberg? Lee Harvey Oswald? Sirhan Sirhan? They are all “part of American history”.

Next you’ll be suggesting a statue of the failed former president.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg didn't do anything that the failed former president didn't do.

Long Live Benedict Arnold?

by nicatnit, Tuesday, December 12, 2023, 20:43 (1062 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

This thread went off the rails quick! Really Rob
The Rosenbergs = Trump.

Long Live Benedict Arnold?

by midalake @, Wednesday, December 13, 2023, 08:02 (1062 days ago) @ nicatnit

This thread went off the rails quick! Really Rob
The Rosenbergs = Trump.

Trump is actually worse. He did most of his treasonous work in front of the public eye. Unless you think stealing government classified documents and an attack of congress is normal. :-(

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Sunday, December 17, 2023, 11:15 (1058 days ago) @ nicatnit

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history.

Those who support removing the statues aren't trying to erase history. That is a myth promulgated to keep the Right Wing Outrage Machine profitably well oiled and operating at peak efficiency. On the contrary, it is those who defend the keeping of the statues who are doing their best to rewrite history. Case in point is the attempt by the State of Florida to introduce into the public school curriculum absolute twaddle about how slaves were treated well and taught marketable skills. If there is anyone in our Happy Little Zihua Family who actually believes that slaves were treated well, trundle on down to your local library and ask them to locate a copy of "To Make Them Stand in Fear: The Slaveowning South." (There are some elements of it available online but it is still under copyright.)

One such horrible -- and for many years, successful -- attempt to rewrite the history of slavery and the Civil War is going to be removed from Arlington National Cemetery soon. The monument depicts a slave tearfully holding the baby of a Confederate slaveholder so that he can kiss his baby before going off to war.

Confederate Memorial at Arlington will be removed despite GOP opposition

Note: Link is good for 30 days from date of post

Since the Civil War, the Southern Dixiecrats, with mostly tacit approval from the Democratic party leadership, were those who kept the Jim Crow laws and white supremacy culture in place. (FDR had to do his best to keep his wife from being photographed with Blacks.) "Tricky Dick" Nixon and his lieutenants Patrick Buchanan and Lee Atwater recognized an opportunity to swing the pendulum when the dreaded LIBERALS rose to power in the Democratic Party and aligned themselves with the Civil Rights movement. Since then, Republicans have skillfully and successfully using racism as a bludgeon against the Democrats while still being able to deny any such tactic. After decades, the kindling was plentiful and Trump came along and lit the fire.

During the Cold War, the Soviets quickly realized that they would never be able to defeat the United States militarily. They understood that the United States could only be defeated from within. They rightly surmised that the key to this would be our original sins of slavery and racism. However, their ham-fisted attempts to gin up race wars through their media outlets of Tass and Pravda were laughable. As hard as it may be to believe, as Martin Luther King, Jr., was fending off accusations of being a Communist from within the States, the Soviets were rooting for his failure as they saw his movement as potentially healing the racial divide.

Vladimir Lenin is reported to have said that the West would supply the rope with which we will hang them. Fast forward to the 21st Century and Vladimir Putin used and continues to use the Western-built Internet to do what the Soviets could not accomplish, namely to stoke the racial divide that is tearing the United States apart. Putin's Internet Research Agency actively supported Trump in the 2016 election. The rewards for Putin's investment have gone beyond their wildest dreams. As of this writing, the Republicans have stymied further military support for Ukraine. In response, the Russian media congratulated the Republicans. "Well done, Gramps!" they gleefully shouted, referring to Senator Mitch McConnell, aka Moscow Mitch.

Who would have ever thought that Russia and the Republicans would be in bed together? Eisenhauer and Reagan and George Bush the Elder and yes, even Tricky Dick are rolling over in their graves. Fact is always stranger than fiction, Dear Fellow Zihua Lovers.

Respectfully submitted,

Padrino

P.S. And yes, Nicatnit, you are correct in that the Confederacy is part of the United States history. However, you are dead wrong when you claim that you are not defending them by insisting these monuments to betrayal, treachery, insurrection, and yes, slavery be allowed to stand.

Very moving article that has nothing to do with Zihuatanejo

by Lazlo, Sunday, December 17, 2023, 11:50 (1058 days ago) @ Padrino

This

Avatar

¡BRAVO!

by ZihuaRob ⌂ @, Zihuatanejo, México, Sunday, December 17, 2023, 13:52 (1058 days ago) @ Padrino

Oh, just erase history that’ll solve all the problems. The statue removal of historical figures is just stupid and wrong. I’m not defending the confederacy but it’s part of American history.


Those who support removing the statues aren't trying to erase history. That is a myth promulgated to keep the Right Wing Outrage Machine profitably well oiled and operating at peak efficiency. On the contrary, it is those who defend the keeping of the statues who are doing their best to rewrite history. Case in point is the attempt by the State of Florida to introduce into the public school curriculum absolute twaddle about how slaves were treated well and taught marketable skills. If there is anyone in our Happy Little Zihua Family who actually believes that slaves were treated well, trundle on down to your local library and ask them to locate a copy of "To Make Them Stand in Fear: The Slaveowning South." (There are some elements of it available online but it is still under copyright.)

One such horrible -- and for many years, successful -- attempt to rewrite the history of slavery and the Civil War is going to be removed from Arlington National Cemetery soon. The monument depicts a slave tearfully holding the baby of a Confederate slaveholder so that he can kiss his baby before going off to war.

Confederate Memorial at Arlington will be removed despite GOP opposition

Note: Link is good for 30 days from date of post

Since the Civil War, the Southern Dixiecrats, with mostly tacit approval from the Democratic party leadership, were those who kept the Jim Crow laws and white supremacy culture in place. (FDR had to do his best to keep his wife from being photographed with Blacks.) "Tricky Dick" Nixon and his lieutenants Patrick Buchanan and Lee Atwater recognized an opportunity to swing the pendulum when the dreaded LIBERALS rose to power in the Democratic Party and aligned themselves with the Civil Rights movement. Since then, Republicans have skillfully and successfully using racism as a bludgeon against the Democrats while still being able to deny any such tactic. After decades, the kindling was plentiful and Trump came along and lit the fire.

During the Cold War, the Soviets quickly realized that they would never be able to defeat the United States militarily. They understood that the United States could only be defeated from within. They rightly surmised that the key to this would be our original sins of slavery and racism. However, their ham-fisted attempts to gin up race wars through their media outlets of Tass and Pravda were laughable. As hard as it may be to believe, as Martin Luther King, Jr., was fending off accusations of being a Communist from within the States, the Soviets were rooting for his failure as they saw his movement as potentially healing the racial divide.

Vladimir Lenin is reported to have said that the West would supply the rope with which we will hang them. Fast forward to the 21st Century and Vladimir Putin used and continues to use the Western-built Internet to do what the Soviets could not accomplish, namely to stoke the racial divide that is tearing the United States apart. Putin's Internet Research Agency actively supported Trump in the 2016 election. The rewards for Putin's investment have gone beyond their wildest dreams. As of this writing, the Republicans have stymied further military support for Ukraine. In response, the Russian media congratulated the Republicans. "Well done, Gramps!" they gleefully shouted, referring to Senator Mitch McConnell, aka Moscow Mitch.

Who would have ever thought that Russia and the Republicans would be in bed together? Eisenhauer and Reagan and George Bush the Elder and yes, even Tricky Dick are rolling over in their graves. Fact is always stranger than fiction, Dear Fellow Zihua Lovers.

Respectfully submitted,

Padrino

P.S. And yes, Nicatnit, you are correct in that the Confederacy is part of the United States history. However, you are dead wrong when you claim that you are not defending them by insisting these monuments to betrayal, treachery, insurrection, and yes, slavery be allowed to stand.

Whatever you drink, I'd like to buy you a round. That was an astounding summary of two extremely important concepts keeping the USA polarized and fighting within instead of realizing its potential, progressing and becoming stronger while also standing up to Putin, Xi and little Kim.

¡BRAVO!

by Padrino ⌂ @, Rosarito/Zihuatanejo, Sunday, December 17, 2023, 14:00 (1058 days ago) @ ZihuaRob

Whatever you drink, I'd like to buy you a round. That was an astounding summary of two extremely important concepts keeping the USA polarized and fighting within instead of realizing its potential, progressing and becoming stronger while also standing up to Putin, Xi and little Kim.

Thank you for your kind words. They are greatly appreciated. I will take you up on that offer on my next joyful visit to Zihua. Papaya licuados, anyone?