Zihuatanejo-Ixtapa Message Board - Before Z After

Zihuatanejo Ixtapa Troncones Mexico
Message Board / Tablero de Mensajes

Back to the forum index

Linear

The powers that be have decided to dredge Las Salinas Lagoon even though they appear not to have thought out their plan very well, causing quite a bit of concern among fishermen and locals not wishing to see more problems caused by another unfinished poorly planned government project. One major problem is they don't seem to know what they're going to do with the dredged muck after piling it up on the property surrounding the lagoon "to let it dry out". Rainy season is sure to be well underway during this dredging process so "the cure" could end up being worse than "the disease". Another problem is the fishermen haven't been told where to put their boats or if the government is going to help pay for their new docks since all the existing wooden docks in the lagoon have to be removed, and the pilings won't be reusable since the lagoon will be deeper. My other concern is the fact that the lagoon is going to remain open to the bay during the dredging, and I recall quite clearly how the last time they dredged just a part of the lagoon all the beaches in the bay were unusable and covered in smelly crap. They are likely to kill much of the marine life in the bay (such as the coral at Las Gatas) with the material dredged from the lagoon.

So I decided I'd better get a few pics because it's likely never to look the same again. Here are a couple from this morning.

[image]

[image]

4836 views

Surely the contractor has heard of a coffer dam. On the lagoon side of the walk over bridge they drive in sheets of steel usually 3 feet wide by 20 or 30 feet long. Thick steel so that while pile driving it will not bend. This will keep water from entering or leaving the lagoon. The boats of course will need to stay outside the lagoon or on trailers. During the low season (now) since there are not allot of fishing would be the best time. I also do not know the duration of the dredging project. Possibly the project could be done in two stages. One stage this year and finish it up next year. That would involve removing some of the steel sheets for boat traffic. Maybe too much cost to remove and then replace. And yes if the sludge is going to stay it will smell until dried. Or since it will need to be trucked away it could be dredged by the shovel or pumps let sit in that area for a few days to let most of the liquid drain off so as not to travel out of town leaking the stink all over the roads. Find an area outside of town capable of dumping the sledge. I have noticed south of town a few miles a garbage dump not well maintained. But the sludge could be placed on top of the garbage to keep it from flying all over the country. As time goes on the garbage under the sludge/dirt will compost. The US did this for years and still does in rural areas.

4195 views

I think you may have overly ambitious plans for an area where having a wheelbarrow instead of buckets is an upscale construction project.

Remembering the long, long Calle Adelita project where the first time they brought in a back hoe it broke the sewer and water lines adding months to the jog.

[image]

4103 views

If you want to keep the bay as clean as possible and the sea life alive then you need to keep the stirred up sludge out of the bay. A mayor or who ever makes these decisions could be a national hero if he does it right.

4035 views

The Mex Navy ripped up a huge portion of the heart of the La Ropa tourist area and then just walked away. The area is waiting for the rainy season to see what the real damage is to this area. Where are The Three Stooges when we need them the most?
[image]

--
ZIHUATANEJO- A QUAINT LITTLE DRINKING VILLAGE WITH A FISHING PROBLEM.
[image]

4176 views

Please don't tell me the Mex. Navy has abandoned that mess above La Ropa!!!! Or is it just until after the rainey season?

3680 views

While I deplore the project on La Ropa as unwarranted ecocide, if the project in Las Salinas was overseen by the Marinos, it would be done professionally! It was done quickly with 21st century equipment. The workers wore hard hats, boots and orange vests instead of shorts and flip flops. They clearly had a plan and seemed to have implemented it (at least the stabilizing the hillside)

3589 views

I do not live in Zihuatanejo I am only a visitor. But if someone was dredging in my bay, I would want to know the arsenic levels. There has to be a plan here? You cannot dredge and pile the crap in the same area.

4036 views

I do not live in Zihuatanejo I am only a visitor. But if someone was dredging in my bay, I would want to know the arsenic levels. There has to be a plan here? You cannot dredge and pile the crap in the same area.

Here is a link to the article in the local paper. This is pretty much what we know.
(Rob has a translator on the top of the page) but one (translated) quote is "He explained that temporarily, in a Tarquina, or kind of pot, to be installed in the grounds of Las Salinas, the sludge will be deposited with a hose. Be expected to become dehydrated, your body water was back, and finally its disposal will be.
He estimated that the dredge will be ready in a week. And if the municipal works senses to be free from 3-4 hectares of land in the place, to temporarily pull the extracted material in 15 days start dredging.

Once it starts, defined in the latest two months is completed, and is expected to become dehydrated sludge, "we're going to be putting lime daily to prevent odors."
The article in the paper

:-(

4056 views

I am really trying hard not to be negative on this issue, but the track record here is not too good. Surely they will have a better plan than piling it up and applying lime?

4052 views

Frankly, if dredging is the plan, there are not that many options and regardless of the options chosen, it will stink and leak as this is done during the rainy season. But then again this isn't something you want to do in the middle of peak tourism season either. Similar operations have been done in many places with different levels of success. The main issue I see with Zihua is what is done so this doesn't have to be done again next year or soon again. Ideally, if the planning is done right, the area has to be blocked from the Bay and the sludge should be carried to that garbage dump as mentioned. It's far from perfect but if done right and some thoughts put into the bigger picture, I could see some positive results. But a lot has to be done right for this to happen. One can only hope!

3891 views

:wtf: :kingtut:

3688 views

Am I reading the newspaper article correctly, that the Governor warned he will authorize the use of force against those who might take a stand to oppose the dredging??

3983 views

Am I reading the newspaper article correctly, that the Governor warned he will authorize the use of force against those who might take a stand to oppose the dredging??

Yes, you're reading that right. Even though he doesn't have anything to do with it (the money comes from federal funds), he "inaugurated" the project and threatened the use of force against any of us "ignorant" folks who might think to protest the poor planning and execution of the project.

Right there my old revolutionary hackles rise up and make me want to provoke the Gober Precioso into carrying out his threat. Remember, this is the guy responsible for the police who shot and killed student protestors who blocked the toll highway through Chilpancingo, the state capital, at the beginning of his term.

And it gets better. There is only something like 35 million pesos budgeted for this project and a time limit of 6 months. Knowing how contractors work when they're on the government time clock, they will be over budget and over the time limit, and they will likely just get up and leave the project unfinished, just like the perimeter road around Las Salinas has been left unfinished by state contractors after running out of money several months ago.

Such exciting times to be in Mexico!

4025 views

A couple of centrifuges would do the job of drying out the sludge. It would be a lot quicker than just layin it on the ground. Good luck.

3781 views

Wow those would have to be some humungous centrifuges to hand the amount of, er, dredged material that will result from this asinine project.

3712 views

ONe or two on a drilling rig handles about one hundred meters per hour. Just hoping to help.

3680 views

Thanks ZihuaRx, I hadn't known about such devices. Took a look at some sites that showed the machines you mentioned, even saw one that referred to their use in dredging operations. They are some good-sized units, and it sure would help if some were used in the Las Salinas project.

3791 views

I do wish (like everyone else on this board) that they would move more upstream and start with the sewer/water plant before they hit the lagoon. Any idea when this is supposed to start?

3615 views

I do wish (like everyone else on this board) that they would move more upstream and start with the sewer/water plant before they hit the lagoon. Any idea when this is supposed to start?

The lagoon dredging is supposed to start within a couple of weeks and the project cost is 35 million pesos. It looks like much of the machinery and equipment is already on site.

It's worth noting that during the 3 previous municipal administrations (roughly the past 10 years) around 480 million pesos was supposedly spent cleaning up the bay and refurbishing the wastewater treatment plants, though it appears they only got a fresh coat of paint and some new pumps. No improvement was ever noticed in the bay.

I read an article that explained the project's contractors planned to put the dredgings (something on the order of 83,000 cubic meters) "with sand and a mixture of lime" into "two containment pits protected with geomembranes in order to avoid leaks, apart from reenforcing the zone with bordering" and that once finished "the affected area will remain in the same condition in which it is found". Uh huh. Sure it will.

"Once the mud from the bottom of the lagoon is in condition to be transported, it will be removed from Las Salinas and taken to the municipal dump". The municipal dump is already in such deplorable condition that it is causing the city to be fined an enormous sum of PUBLIC MONEY (unfortunately not the money of the persons responsible for its condition through their acts of NEGLECT and OMISSION) by state and federal environmental agencies.

"The actual dredging itself is planned to take two and a half months, and the entire project is planned to take six months." I have heard this song so many times that I already know that by this time next year the project will still have something unfinished. Anyone care to make a wager with me? I'm not a betting man but I am as sure of this as I am that the sea is salty.

And yes there will be some "unpleasant effects" during this project. Some folks are going to be "bothered".

I love how our local newspapers report these things.

[image]

3631 views

Looks like they plan to start any day now, but there is growing opposition to the project as presented due to the obvious lack of coordination and the lack of measures to ensure that contaminants from the lagoon don't enter the bay. ¡ASÍ ES MI PUEBLO!

3386 views

If my eyes are working the calculator correctly this a.m. then it is costing about $30 USD a cu yd for the project. I'm gussing concrete is in the $70 cu yad range (??) delivered or mixed on site.

3387 views

Thanks for the gorgeous fotos, Rob. I saved 'em for posterity.
This project, as described, is really going to make a mess of both tierra y bahia.
I sure hope that they do make use of a coffer dam, as another poster suggested.
Otherwise the precious playas limpias certifications will be as nothing compared to the pollution in the bay and in the waves that lap the shores of those beaches.

3562 views

Will they actually start this project before fixing the sewer plant that drains into the lagoon?

3637 views

Will they actually start this project before fixing the sewer plant that drains into the lagoon?

Yes, the dredging begins in a couple of weeks and is scheduled to last 6 months. The treatment plant isn't scheduled to be finished and fully operational until March 2015.

They are NOT going to block the water in lagoon from escaping into the bay during the dredging, so I'm fully expecting not only our summer tourist vacation season to be ruined but also next winter's. I do NOT have confidence in the government making sure to plan carefully. All the local bigwigs are too busy building their new homes (as well as for their family members) and stuffing their pockets and getting ready for the next elections. They just don't seem to care enough to take the time to plan carefully, and much less to listen to the public or seek expert opinions. Remember, they have had their priorities in the wrong order since entering office, and that speaks volumes.

This is going to get real interesting as more locals catch on to what's going on and start asking questions. How long will it be until they demand answers?

3721 views

Well, that is too bad. If this runs like the road rebuilding over towards La Noria they will get half way into it, run out of money, and stop.
As anyone can see there are too many projects halted before completion.

3531 views

That sucks....if it's going to be as bad as you say it is, I guess we won't be coming in a few weeks.

3789 views

I would come. If they say three weeks then it might start sometime waaaaay after that. I would not change my plans on something that will take longer than they ever say for getting started. But that is just my opinion.

3597 views

Love your attitude miss M....just wish there was a better website to find a flight down there...I guess we will go with a travel agent....is it just me, but shouldn't there be a website that suggests different dates if you don't have the exact dates the airline flys? There probably is, but I don't know about it...I must admit, I am a bit worried about the sludge because when I paddleboard I am as much in the water as above it...

3597 views

Will they actually start this project before fixing the sewer plant that drains into the lagoon?

Yes, the dredging begins in a couple of weeks and is scheduled to last 6 months. The treatment plant isn't scheduled to be finished and fully operational until March 2015.

They are NOT going to block the water in lagoon from escaping into the bay during the dredging, so I'm fully expecting not only our summer tourist vacation season to be ruined but also next winter's. I do NOT have confidence in the government making sure to plan carefully. All the local bigwigs are too busy building their new homes (as well as for their family members) and stuffing their pockets and getting ready for the next elections. They just don't seem to care enough to take the time to plan carefully, and much less to listen to the public or seek expert opinions. Remember, they have had their priorities in the wrong order since entering office, and that speaks volumes.

This is going to get real interesting as more locals catch on to what's going on and start asking questions. How long will it be until they demand answers?

Lots of folks, including us, will be closely monitoring the Message Board over the next 6 months for information far more critical to our vacation plans than the latest Zihua restaurant openings/closings.
When I first read of the proposed dredging of Las Salinas, I naively assumed it had something to do with an attempt to control or eliminate the stench that increasingly fouls the air in and around Centro.
Instead, not only does it sound like the odour problems could be magnified exponentially - possibly for many months - but the beaches, already only borderline-safe for swimming, may also be adversely-affected.... for months.
Our last digs in Centro gave us a direct line of sight (and smell) to Las Salinas. From what I've read here, that location might not be where one would want to spend next tourist season.
I think I'll postpone any thoughts of advance booking until the water seems less murky, so to speak.

3640 views

Good reply old timer

3511 views

And after reading your reply, some locals and "public servants" will blame me, the messenger, for any negative effects such as cancellations, not the problem itself or those responsible for it. Just like our mayor took a lot of criticism for "allowing" the warning signs on Playa Principal.

3640 views

And after reading your reply, some locals and "public servants" will blame me, the messenger, for any negative effects such as cancellations, not the problem itself or those responsible for it. Just like our mayor took a lot of criticism for "allowing" the warning signs on Playa Principal.

I'm sure you're right, but this won't deter you from continuing to "tell it like it is" - and thank goodness for that, especially for those of us with limited Spanish who can't depend on local media for Zihua news. (I find when I use the translation tools, articles are still fairly incomprehensible).
And I suspect the local media doesn't approach news stories with the same healthy level of skepticism you do.

3518 views

RSS Feed of thread